Riddle me this!

[RandyG]

Hey All, I had a perplexing experience last weekend. I had 1st pours of 2 B/D batches using Belle Saison yeast. Everything(to my knowledge) was done exactly the same.Brewing procedures,sanitation, temperature control(both around mid to high 70's) and one tasted perfectly okay,but the other had the dreaded "Nail-polish"taste. I tried to mix it with various other beverages,but it was still too strong to mask. As much as I hated to do it,it was dumped.As I said everything was done the same. I even used the same steeping grains from the same bag. I read that the main reason for this is the yeast getting too stressed because of high temps,but Belle should have handled up in the 80's. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers.

[FedoraDave]

It does sound like a stressed yeast problem. Having said that, you're right about the temperature being in that yeast's wheelhouse.

Since the conditions were similar between the batches, I can only offer two possible solutions.

1) There was a temperature spike that you didn't notice or couldn't control at a crucial time, resulting in unpleasant esters.

Or

B) The yeast in the bad batch was bad yeast. You've probably discarded the packaging, but perhaps it was older or even expired.

[mashani]

I had a nail polish batch too, which I ended up dumping and I never do that. I also do not believe that my temps got too high, so I am clueless to what caused it either.

80 degrees and Bella should not be a problem, it would just be mega fruity. (but not nail polish).

My only guess in my case, and yours unless you went a good bit over 80 degrees at some point is that it was a "lame" pack of yeast, near expiration date or otherwise not happy.

All that said, if you do want to be fermenting 80+ degrees there are even better yeast choices out there.

You could use Wyeast Belgian Saison, which is happy up to 90 or more. It will make bubblegum esters and some peppery spice but not nailpolish.

Omega Labs has 3 different Kviek strains, 2 are labeled as such, the 3rd they call "hothead", all of them will be perfectly fine up to 90 or more as well. The difference is the esters they make, some are more Orange like citrus, others more tropical fruity like esters. None of those yeasts are phenolic at all.

[RandyG]

Dave and Mash,looking back at the spikes in temps we have had here in S. Central Pa. that may have been a contributing factor.The ambient temp of my garage jumped up to 80ish on occasions,but having gone to the Lallemand yeast site it states that Belle Saison can operate safely from 59 to 95 degrees if I read the specs correctly. But that may be just for advertising the product. I didn't check the best by date on the sachet so I don't know if it was old or not,but the package I used in the other batch,came from the same place.I'd like to try the Omega Hothead,but none of my LHBS carry it. I would have to buy it online.Problem there is that it supposedly has a lifespan of 5 months,and you never know how long it was in the online wharehouse.Oh well,at least it was only a 2 1/2 gallon batch that I dumped. I brewed a 5 gallon batch today using Munton's Light,a 3.3 Breiss Golden light and Belle yeast.Hope it turns out ok. I bottled a 5 er of Cerveza using Belle yeast and it came out fine.Oh well,we will see in about 3 weeks. Thanx for your comments. Cheers

[mashani]

I doubt it was temps on their own. I know people who have intentionally raised Belgian Saison to 97+ degrees and made good beer. Bella doesn't need those temps, but going over 80 and likely into the 90s is not going to hurt it, although I've only normally used Bella up to around 78-80.

But a huge underpitch (bad yeast pack) mixed with really high temps might be bad.