Mash and Boil for 250.00

[Kealia]

Whew,

I went back and re-read all 18 pages and I think I'm left with only a few questions:

1) It seems like the average boil off for 60-minutes is about 1/2 gallon, right?
2) You CAN do a full BIAB no-sparge on a 5G batch, correct? (That would be for a beer in the 1.055 range).
3) I didn't see anybody actually using a Hydra chiller, so I'm wondering if it fits. The specs on the M&B say any chiller up to 11" in diameter. The Hydra is actually 11"x11.5"......
4) Does the base unit separate from the actual kettle? (Is it two pieces? I've never seen the kettle shown without the part where the controllers are.
- This is of interest in terms of fermenting in it. If I were to use the fermenting lid with a stopper and Thermowell, I'd also be col-crashing in it and I'd have concerns about dropping the electronics
down to close to freezing.
- Also wondering for height purposes
5) It seems like there is a lot of trial and error to get both the mash-in and holding temps right - or am I misreading that and a simple stir helps keeps the mash temp pretty consistent even if the controller temps are swinging?

I wouldn't be interested in buying/using a pump either as going this route would be a means of simplifying things (like mashani). Fermenting in the single unit would be nice, but not critical as I have my nice SS Brewing BrewBucket. And I plan to keep doing 5G batches and wouldn't have a problem either doing a full BIAB or traditional sparging.

I think that's it. I'm interested but want to pick your brains a bit more.

@bpgreen - Did you figure out your mash efficiency issue yet?

[The_Professor]

........@bpgreen - Did you figure out your mash efficiency issue yet?

I actually wondered if the issue might be the mesh bottom of the grain bin as my thought is that would drain faster that I usually sparge. But I assume everyone else is doing the same thing so I guess that is not it.

[berryman]

I am the most experienced but not the most knowledgeable (mash is the most knowledgeable one) on this unit. I have been brewing with it for close to 2 years, I really like it for what it is and make some good beer with it. I was the first to get one not long after they came out. On to your questions...
1) yes about .5 boil off average, I have just a little more then that but depends on your elevation and room temp., it does not boil hard.
2) I can't answer this because not the way I use it. not sure how high you can go full volume no-sparge. but you can easily make 1.070 plus 5 gal in this, I do it all the time but prefer about 1.060
3) standard Hydra will fit.
4) The main unit is one piece, the grain tube/basket comes out. as far as fermenting in I have no interest in doing that.
5) it actually holds the mash temps good. The numbers on the bottom aren't what the mash is.
Ok 123 Mash where are you?

[berryman]

you will also get about .50 kettle loss, you can cut that in 1/2 if you want to tip and get some of that into your fermenter, I don't.

[Kealia]

Thanks berryman, I've seen your posts and mods (like the recirculation/sparge manifold - pretty cool stuff).

It's great to know that the Hydra fits - that is a big plus in my book as I LOVE my Hydra and the damn thing was expensive so I'd want to keep using it.
I've never brewed anything as high as 1.070 as most of my beers are in the 1.050 - 1.063 range, with most closer to the lower end. My typical beer would be 11lbs of grain + 9.25 gallons of water (mash + sparge). That gives me about 6.5 gallons at the end of the boil which gives me about 5.5 - 5.75 in the fementer after chilling/shrinkage, kettle loss, etc.

It looks like with a max volume of 7.5G in this, I'd be doing a BIAB mash + sparge, which is fine.

Thanks for the answer on it being all one unit. Fermenting in it would be *nice* but not necessary. I'll go read some FAQs on that but I'm guessing that those that ferment in it use either ambient temps without a cold crash or a cooling jacket of some sort versus putting it in their fermentation chamber. I think I also read that they don't recommend picking it up by the handles with 5G of wort in it either. That is kind of a deal-breaker for me as I'd need to carry it from my kitchen to my fermentation chamber .

I am attracted by the idea of doing kettle sours in it because it can hold the temps, though. And since I have the SS Brewbucker to ferment in it's easy enough to transfer from the M&B to that for fermenting. So I'm still intrigued....

[mashani]

RE: the BIAB ?:

I think you will max it out at around 12 or maybe 13# of grain (probably pushing your luck) or there about if you are doing full volume BIAB for a 5 gallon batch. That is gonna take the mash right up near the top so it might get sketchy if you try to push it. That said, I've done a handful with 10-11# of grain without any problem. (things like 1.05ish Patersbiers). If you were to make something like an ESB the "real oldschool British way" as in use some candi sugar in it added to the boil, then you could easily do a ~1.06 beer still. Or a dubbel would work in the same sense. Or supplement with a little bit of DME.

What I did for the few beers I did with more then that (or ones I wanted to be 6 gallons) is an "almost full volume BIAB" and then I just pulled the basket and did a lame kind of "sparge" where I just poured another gallon or two water over the grain bed (did not bother to heat it) and/or topped up a bit with water if needed. Because I am not one to worry about silly things and will do that sort of thing instead of freaking out about missing my volume and think my beer is ruined or what not that some people do.

For a 3 gallon batch, I can't think of any grain bill I'd make that would max it out, you'd be talking something totally dumb like 27# of grain for 3 gallons. Since I tend to make 3 gallon batches more often then not, BIAB is the way I tend to go for most everything.

Another thing you *could* do is something like a BIAB version of a reiterated mash, IE mash 10#, pull the basket, let it drain, dump the grains, put the basket back in, add more grain and some small amount of water to make up for the grain absorption loss for the new set of grain, and then let it mash some more. This would work just fine it just would take longer. I don't know why you would do this vs. a thicker mash & a sparge though but you *could* do it. I suppose you could go with a new fangled ~40ish minute mash for each half and still get it done just as quickly as if you sparged. Maybe.

BTW, Kettle sours would work great, but you will need to remember to set the timer properly, by default it's gonna shut down way before your done.

[mashani]

........@bpgreen - Did you figure out your mash efficiency issue yet?

I actually wondered if the issue might be the mesh bottom of the grain bin as my thought is that would drain faster that I usually sparge. But I assume everyone else is doing the same thing so I guess that is not it.

I layer a couple of these on the bottom of the basket to give it a finer filtration, not because of the sparge, but because I'm trying to keep stuff from getting through the holes and onto the burner. It is a lot easier to clean if nothing burns on it. I weigh them down with some stainless steel table knives. But they would help slow down the sparge too.

http://www.amazon.com/INCHANT-Silicone- ... B0798HP416

That said, I think BPGreen uses them too, so it doesn't explain why I get 80%+ mash (not brewhouse... mash) efficiency and he gets somehow a hella lot less.

I think it's more about mash ph somehow, or maybe his hydrometer and/or temperature adjusted reading is messed up somehow and he's doing better then he thinks. I test my water regularly because it varies by around .3 over the year and pre-adjust my water/mash so I target 5.4 and pretty much have been nailing somewhere between 5.3 and 5.5 right away.

EDIT: I do also treat all my mash water with campden, but I don't know why that would matter in that regards. But for full disclosure I guess I should mention it.

[bpgreen]

I see most of your questions have been answered. Brewer's Edge recommends against moving the M&B while it's full.

I haven't figured out why my efficiency is low. But I don't think it's related to the M&B. I've always gotten poor efficiency. It just didn't make as much of a difference when I was using LME for most of my fermentables.

[Kealia]

I think I'm pretty close to doing this (i.e. have Santa bring it to me for Xmas). I've made note of the silicon linings as well, thanks.

Because of the recommendation to not lift it when it is full, I won't consider fermenting in it and will continue to use my SS Brewbucket. The fact that I can use my Hydra chiller is a big plus. I'm just not seeing any downside.

The last thing I think I need to figure out is a stand. I've seen the ones you guys are using and need to see if I have something similar around already.
Another plus - I may be able to brew in my man-cave/office where all my supplies are instead of having to lug everything into the kitchen as I do know.

[berryman]

I think I'm pretty close to doing this (i.e. have Santa bring it to me for Xmas). I've made note of the silicon linings as well, thanks.

Because of the recommendation to not lift it when it is full, I won't consider fermenting in it and will continue to use my SS Brewbucket. The fact that I can use my Hydra chiller is a big plus. I'm just not seeing any downside.

The last thing I think I need to figure out is a stand. I've seen the ones you guys are using and need to see if I have something similar around already.
Another plus - I may be able to brew in my man-cave/office where all my supplies are instead of having to lug everything into the kitchen as I do know.

Kealia, I think you might have the same fermenter that I use, Ss brewtech bucket 7 gal. it is 21 inches tall. The spigot is 7 inches up from the base on the M&B, so if you are thinking of a stand and gravity keep that in mind, but keep the unit as low as possible for easier lifting of the grain basket.

[Kealia]

Thanks, berryman. Yes it is the same fermenter.

[Kealia]

Santa (aka Williams Brewing) will be delivering a M&B to me to put under my tree!

Thanks for the discussion and for starting this thread in the first place!

[mashani]

Sweet. Welcome to the club!

[Kealia]

Thanks for all the answers/discussion. This could be a game-changer in terms of me hauling crap everywhere and having to take over the kitchen on brew days.
I won't get to play with it until after Christmas, though. I ordered the silicon mats, too.

[Dawg LB Steve]

My local LHBS is carrying this now may just pull the trigger it gets cold in NE Ohio in the winter. Been lurking in the background on this thread, I want to go electric now that I am almost completely done with the basement remodel and clearing shelves and painting the floor on the mechanical side of basement, I can put an old piece of countertop from kitchen remodel on some shelving right next to a sink, would also mean no carrying 8 gallon fermenters from garage into the basement I have a Turbo 500 boiler I have been using with Inkbird controller for strike water since summer, since I have 13,15 and 25 gallon pots, still weighing converting these. Just up in the air on cost vs 220v controls and elements (have a couple electrical engineers in Homebrew Club) over plug it in and brew.