Le Petite Saison

[mashani]

I can get it down a couple more degrees and pitch around 67 or 68. My basement temp shouldn't let it get out of the 70's, even during the height of fermentation. I can always stick it in the fridge and set it for a wort temp of 78 just to make sure it doesn't get too high. And thanks for the blowoff suggestion.

Bella Saison will work anywhere from 60s to 80s just fine, and regardless it's going to chew it down to 1.003 or < no matter what you make, usually lower if you just wait a bit more. What changes is what types of flavors are produced. It's more tart citrusy at lower temps, it's more peppery and tropical and what people think of as "saison like" in the 70+ range. I've made 1.07+ beers that ended up in the 0.99s with it. Which is why I no longer make 1.07 or even 1.06 beers with that yeast. You just get stupidly alcoholic beers if you do.

You do not need to ramp up temps for it to finish, but it will finish more quickly in the 70s then lower then that. If using Belgian Saison (Dupont yeast, IE the huge amounts of bubble gum kind) then you do need to ramp temps or it will stall out for 2 weeks... that yeast I would take into the 90s at the end. But you don't need to with Bella Saison.

Mash temps mean absolutely nothing with Bella Saison btw. It will break down big sugar chains into little ones and eat them anyways. It will break down starches into sugars and then the sugars into little ones and eat them too. It basically does the same thing that the enzymes used to make Brut IPAs do, except it makes them on it's own.

Anyone who doesn't make beer that ferments out that much with that yeast regardless of OG or sugar additions or whatever just bottled or kegged it too soon and either drank it before it exploded (bottles) or their keg vented the excess pressure, or just didn't pitch enough / pitched half dead yeast.

That is the magic of sac var diasticus.

Make sure you murder it when your done / clean everything well, or you will possibly end up with over attenuating beers later.

The "SoRawChi Ace" that I just brewed with it finished at 0.997 and it has no sugar, just pilsner.

[BlackDuck]

Thanks Mashani. Especially the part on cleaning. I didn’t know that about this yeast. Luckily it won’t be touching much more than the fermenter, blow off stuff and transfer to keg tube. I’m assuming a good soak in PBW will do the trick?


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[mashani]

PBW and normal sanitation should be fine. It's a yeast so it's big, doesn't hide in cracks like bacteria.

[BlackDuck]

Thanks. It’s all done and in the fermenter. Hit all the numbers damn near on the money.


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[BlackDuck]

I direct pitched this at 72. The wort temp actually dropped to 70 since I forgot to turn the fridge off (long story, don't ask)!!! I have no way of heating this up, so I just let it do it's thing. Over three days, the temp rose each day and capped off at 77.2 F last night. This morning it was 76.5. So it looks like the fermentation is slowing down. I'll give it a couple more days and take gravity reading to see how it ended up.

[BlackDuck]

Took a temp and gravity reading tonight. Temp was at 75, and gravity was at 1.006, temperature correction puts it at 1.008. There is still slight activity in the blowoff too, so it's got a little more to go. I'll give this a couple more days before I crash and keg.

Although it's hard to judge the tast and aroma at this point since it's warm and not carbed, but the saison characteristics are definitely there.

[mashani]

It should go lower then that. If there are any big unfermentable sugar chains in there they will be being busted up by enzymes into ones the yeast can eat still until the yeast run out of nutrients needed to make them.

[bpgreen]

I know nothing about brewing a saison.

But I took French in high school. That was almost 50 years ago, but I remember enough to know that "la" is feminine and "le" is masculine.

So "Le Petite Saison" makes no sense.

Le petit or la petite, depending on the noun. Since saison is feminine, it's "la petite"

And yes, I do know that a blond is a man and a blonde is a woman (although not everybody does).

[BlackDuck]

I forgot to update this over the weekend. This past Wednesday the gravity was at 1.008. I let it sit until Saturday, three days later and the gravity only dropped one more point to 1.007, which is where BeerSmith had it's predicted FG to be. So I figure this baby is done. I started the cold crash. I won't be able to get this in the keg until Wednesday though. It did taste pretty good, just like a saison. So I've got that going for me, which is nice!!!

[mashani]

I forgot to update this over the weekend. This past Wednesday the gravity was at 1.008. I let it sit until Saturday, three days later and the gravity only dropped one more point to 1.007, which is where BeerSmith had it's predicted FG to be. So I figure this baby is done. I started the cold crash. I won't be able to get this in the keg until Wednesday though. It did taste pretty good, just like a saison. So I've got that going for me, which is nice!!!

Beersmith lies or your hydrometer lies, because that is attenuation profile for a normal yeast, which Bella Saison is not. It is not really done at 1.007 with a 1.04ish grain bill, no way in hell, unless something is wrong, old half dead yeast or something. Bella is a domesticated Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus yeast. It will eat your shoe.

I have gotten 0.997 beers with 1.06 grain bills, and 1.002 beers with 1.08 grain bills (which is why I will never make a 1.08 grain bill or even a 1.06 grain bill with it again LOL). Just ask Berryman, I think his big 1.08+ beer kit fermented out like that and he was a drunken farmer.

Anyways if you keep it cold in your keg I guess it will stay where it is. But if you have the keg sitting somewhere warm and it wakes up, it's going to ferment more.

[BlackDuck]

So after 80 some recipes BeerSmith or my hydrometer finally decided to lie to me...amazing!!! Here's the thing, I don't really care that it ended at 1.007. What's the difference between 1.007 and 1.004, or 1.005? To me, nothin!!

[mashani]

It is likely Beersmith is what lied, because it doesn't understand that yeast can attenuate 97% or more. You need to ignore beersmith or any other brewing software's estimated FG when it comes to some saison yeasts, or any yeast that is flagged as carrying Diastaticus genes. Just like it can't estimate Brut IPAs. These things ain't normal.

The yeast makes glucoamaylase, basically the same stuff used to make Brut IPAs.

For your reference direct from the horses mouth a link you can find on Bella's page - I'm not talking garbage.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-con ... igital.pdf

If it doesn't ferment like a Brut IPA, I don't understand how that happens. It never doesn't happen for me. I do always let it go for 2 full weeks.

Seriously I've never had anything finish above 1.003 when using Bella Saison and I've made dozens of beers with it and that includes beers that were 1.08ish that went 97% and ended up 10.25% ABV.

And I have gone as low as 0.997 at least 5 times including the last beer I made with it, which was mashed @150.

The difference flavor perception wise between a 1.04 beer that finishes at 1.007 vs. 0.997 is pretty significant, let alone a 1.07 or 8 beer that ends up 1.003 or 2... instead of 1.018 or whatever normal yeast would do. One has residual sweetness, the other is absolutely bone dry. Also a good bit more alcohol. IE one is 4.3, the other is 5.5, which also changes flavor perception. Or in the case of a 1.08 beer 10+% ABV vs. 8%.

That said, many people would probably like that beer better at 1.007 or 1.005 anyways, because that's more "normal" of an experience perceptually, so chilling early is probably ok for them.

If you want to know what that level of bone dry tastes like, the easiest way is to get a Brooklyn Brewery "A Sorachi Ace" and try it. Or come over here and try one of my raw Sorachi beers when they are done conditioning because they are 0.997...