Rare Vos Clone?

[John Sand]

I plan to brew it. I have a recipe in Clone Brews, but I am searching for others. The Ommegang website has more seasonings than the CB recipe. Has anyone brewed a successful Rare Vos Clone?

[BigPapaG]

There are a couple out there...

I would be interested in knowing which is the closest as well since it's one of my all time favorites!

This one from beertools seems to be referenced a lot...
http://www.beertools.com/library/recipe.php?view=4436

And Maltose Express sells a clone...
http://www.maltosecart.com/belgian-fren ... vos-clone/

And BrewMasters Warehouse has a 3 gallon clone...
http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/rec ... -vos-clone

And as you know (but for others that don't), Ommegang lists:

MALTS: Pilsner, Aroma, Caramel
HOPS: Styrian Goldings
SPICES: Corriander, Sweet Orange Peel, Grains of Paradise
YEAST: Ommegang House Yeast
OG: 14.2* Plato
FG: 2.5* Plato
ABV: 6.5%
IBU: 21

Note that according to Stan Hieronymus in 'Brew like a Monk', and tempering this info with the most likly commercial cost considerations for a modern NYS brewery... The following are most likely:

Pilsner: Domestic
Specialty Malts: Dingemans in Belgium
Spices: Domestic
Hops: Authentic Styrian Golding variety
Yeast: Orginally obtained in Belgium, selected from a yeast bank in Belgium for it's ability to be a bit different in profile for each of their brews, have good flocculation, have the ability to ferment high gravity beer. They reportedly allow no more than seven generations before going back to the first... (Based on my experience, for my purposes, Ardennes is a good choice here but YMMV)

My suspicion is that sugar is also used either in the boil or mid-primary to aid in attenuation and 'digestibility'.

Pitch Rate: 18.5 million cells per milliliter

Note that they ferment on the higher side of the temp range to achieve optimal attenuation...
After primary, they rest the beer for two weeks at 31*F, then add sugar (corn sugar [dextrose] is used) and fresh yeast at a rate of 1-3 million cells per milliliter depending on how big the beer is, targeting 3.75 volumes of CO2 in the bottle (PSA: This is very high for standard 12 ounce long necks... Personally, I would go no higher than 3 volumes or so... or use thicker walled Belgian style bottles.)

Carb / Conditioning: one to two weeks in a warm room (floor heated with ceiling mounted radiant heaters, temps controlled during carbonation).

Let us know if you move forward with one of these and how it works out...

[mashani]

In addition to what Big Papa G said... I would ignore those recipes above that use Columbus hops or Mt. Hood. I'd use styrian goldings as any bittering and flavoring addition, and nothing else. That beer has very smooth bitterness, and you will not get it if you use a high AA bittering hop. And to me it tastes like styrians all the way.

Now if they do a true decoction mash of the pilsner, then those recipes that toss in a bit of munich would be a good bet in that regards. A little bit of munich adds in some of the flavors that you don't get if you do a simple infusion mash of pilsner, or use a pilsner extract. Tossing in a bit of munich is a trick I often use to make extract Belgians get a a more authentic malt vibe. I do not know if they do it or not, or if they simply rely on something like Aromatic malt (which is basically a munich derivative anyways) to give them those missing elements.

[John Sand]

Thanks, great info. I do plan to brew this fairly soon. I think I'll average the recipes, with an eye toward what I have on hand. The Clone Brew recipe has Extra Light extract, crystal 60. aromatic and chocolate malt, as well as 1lb clear candy sugar. They call for Styrian Goldings for bittering and Czech Saaz for aroma. They list only the grains of paradise, not the orange and coriander. I have pilsner malt for a mini-mash, and pilsner extract. I'll use the 1 ounce of Goldings I have, plus Fuggles is a common substitute, and I have plenty of them. I bought a vial of White Labs Abbey yeast.

[BigPapaG]

Chocolate malt doesn't sound quite right...

C60 can give you the right color easily enough, especially with the aromatic and if you add munich.

Saaz could be an option but as mashani said, I too am only getting Styrian Goldings with that brew.
(and you are right, Fuggles will marry in nicely)

I think the corriander and sweet orange are needed, else the GOP alone might leave it too peppery.

Abbey yeast should be fine... Keep it warmer than not...

If you haven't purchased the clear candi sugar yet, you can easily use table sugar (sucrose).

Good luck with this!

[mashani]

I agree with the chocolate, I am guessing they are just using it for color adjustment. I'd just toss in a touch of dark candi sugar if I wanted to do that personally. Or a tiny bit of Special B perhaps.

You didn't say Styrians when you said Goldings, so just to be sure... Not US Goldings or Kent goldings... Styrians are more like Fuggles. They are also called Bobek these days. They are a fuggle variety adapted to different soil conditions.

WLP530 - if you have never used it, leave some extra headspace then you would normally.

Also, that yeast absolutely loves sugar feedings, it will almost always finish a few points lower in FG if you feed it sugar during fermentation. I would probably feed all the sugar as a single feeding after initial krausen starts to settle down a bit (3-4 days in or so). Then watch it explode.

[John Sand]

More great advice. Thanks guys. There's only one ounce of chocolate malt in the CB recipe, so I think you're right about color. The Can You Brew It recipe has only pils, aromatic and caravienne. I do have Styrian Goldings, but US Saaz. Czech is specified for aroma in the CB recipe. I haven't used 530 before. I just have the 6 gallon ale pail. Do you think I should rig a blow-off, or start cool?

[mashani]

If that yeast really gets ripping you need 30%+ head space if you don't want to use a blowoff and you pitch the right amount of yeast.

Back in the day I had a 5 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon glass carboy blow off nearly a gallon of beer. That was a really big quad with 3 sugar feedings, but still that can give you an idea of worst case scenario. Your beer will NOT be that bad since it's a much lower gravity, but still... it can be messy. Even my 1.04ish patersbiers, even if nothing but pils extract and hops, often generate close to 3" of krausen.

Also, if the krausen never falls, don't freak. If gravity checks say it's done it's done. Sometimes even at 3+ weeks there will still be krusen with that yeast. That yeast is pretty medieval in it's behavior, it's meant to help keep bugs out of an open fermenter. (as in scoop them off the top with a net... really!).

EDIT: Oh and if I just had to pick a single yeast to brew with for the rest of my life, that would be it. (or Wyeast 3787).

[John Sand]

Great, thanks. The CB recipe is extract+steeping grains, with options for mini-mash or AG. I have enough pilsner malt to go about 80% grain. I'm tempted to do a mash, but trying to justify the extra hour or so. Any advice?

[mashani]

If you have the time, and you like spending it that way, it's going to make fine beer.

I'm not going to be able to offer better advice then that because I never mash pilsner these days, I just use MoreBeer pilsner extract which I find to be of excellent quality, as the extra 2+ hours for the mash/boil are not worth it to me personally for any minor differences, and they are minor as long as you are using really fresh extract - which the MoreBeer stuff always is.

[John Sand]

OK, I'm going for it. I decided to mostly mash, because I have more grain than extract. It's mashing right now.

[FrozenInTime]

Rare vos? What is that? I have never heard of it, is it a local specialty?

[John Sand]

Not completely local, but the product a NY brewery in Cooperstown named Ommegang. They produce world class Belgian style ales

[John Sand]

Following the advice above, I withheld the candy sugar until later, also about a gallon of water. That will leave plenty of headspace, and hopefully the later feeding of sugar will help it finish up.

[Banjo-guy]

Not completely local, but the product a NY brewery in Cooperstown named Ommegang. They produce world class Belgian style ales

I toured Ommegang last summer. It's a great brewery to tour.
They also have a nice Belgian cafe on the grounds that offers inexpensive Belgian food and all of their beers in a sampler.
The tasting room is very cool also. When you are done with the brewery head over to the Baseball Hall Of Fame in Cooperstown.

It's about an hour from Albany. The drive from Albany to Cooperstown is very pretty if you take back roads.

My son loves all of their beers. I might try to brew this for Christmas.