Musings on gusher batches

[mashani]

what about the yeast?
i have only had one gusher batch, and i did drink it.
i was thinking it was the chocolate malt thing that the "HAT" brought up a while back.
everyone is talking equipment, but what about the yeast and yeast starters.
might be a combination of things.

just sayin
brewon

It's rare for yeast right out of the package to be bad, as in harbor enough bugs to do this. It has happened / yeast has been recalled because of it and/or defective packaging - but it's rare. Once you make a starter, then it's a matter of your process and equipment of course.

Now there are some yeasts, say Belgian Saison for example that will get stuck and then wake up again. If you interpret the "stuck" as done instead of doing everything in your power to get it to wake up again, and then bottle it, then gushers or bombs are very possible. Also some yeasts like Wyeast Belgian Strong Ale will continue to ferment very slowly for a very long time, so it's often best to carb a bit low (or at least normal) with them, as you will likely end up with "Belgian Carb" with age anyways. I usually prime my Belgians 2.7-2.8ish, but if I use that yeast I go 2.4-2.5 and figure it will get a few extra points with age.

[Brewbirds]

The brew notes will help track things down in the plastics but it could also still be the bottles depending on how you keep track of them.

If you have a batch of gushers do you isolate those bottles from the rest?

If you have a bottle tree you might try going through your normal bottle treatment ( up to a bottling day) with a few bottles from a batch; just get a couple of them good and wet and then put them on the bottle tree to dry.

If after a few minutes most of the bottle has dried inside and out but there are still "vapor spots" inside it could mean that the bottles have issues.

Here are some pics of the same bottle under an indoor can light, a florescent light and sunlight; while it is hard to take a good pic of glass close up I hope they show that you could not see the vapor spot inside the bottle on any pic but the indoor can light.

Indoor can:

Brewissues 002.JPG (82.68 KiB) Viewed 607 times

Florescent:

Brewissues 006.JPG (91.47 KiB) Viewed 607 times

Sunlight:

Brewissues 004.JPG (86.13 KiB) Viewed 607 times

Like I said they aren't great pics but I promise you that there is a difference in what kind of lighting will show if your bottles are truly clean.
Oh and that bottle had a very large vapor spot on it but it only needs to be one or two tiny dots of vapor to tell you something is clinging to the inside of your glass.

Bottles and bottling have been where I chose to go mad scientist because I got so many off of CL so I hope it doesn't sound like preaching it's just that I have been messing around with this issue a lot.

[Rebel_B]

what about the yeast?
i have only had one gusher batch, and i did drink it.
i was thinking it was the chocolate malt thing that the "HAT" brought up a while back.
everyone is talking equipment, but what about the yeast and yeast starters.
might be a combination of things.

just sayin
brewon

Yes... I've only had gushers with a couple of batches of English Ale yeasts.

[mashani]

what about the yeast?
i have only had one gusher batch, and i did drink it.
i was thinking it was the chocolate malt thing that the "HAT" brought up a while back.
everyone is talking equipment, but what about the yeast and yeast starters.
might be a combination of things.

just sayin
brewon

Yes... I've only had gushers with a couple of batches of English Ale yeasts.

If it was a strain like Ringwood or Yorkshire, those probably floc'd out and/or got lazy and pretended to be done for other reasons only they knew, but were not... and then got re-suspended when you bottled and ate more then just the bottling sugar since they were hangin' out and partying again and you probably had it somewhere warmer too.

Some of those are really finicky like the Belgian strains I mentioned. But they make great beer if you can keep them happy.

[FedoraDave]

Birdie, I'm thinking it's not an issue with the bottles. I don't keep track of my bottles, and just rotate them through as I'm emptying them. Thus, one six pack may contain bottles from three or four batches, since I keep a variety in my fridge and drink whatever I'm in the mood for.

This would distribute potentially nasty bottles randomly through the empties. I also choose random six packs on bottling day. Thus more random nastiness potential. But my gushers are batch-wide. An entire case of beer, and every one's a gusher, while other batches are perfectly fine each and every bottle.

This defies the laws of probability. It's not the bottles - it's the batch, and it may be every third batch, which would mean it's the LBK.

I also don't get my bottles from random strangers. They're from commercial beer I bought myself, new empties from the LHBS, or Borg Gift bottles from generous folks like Inkleg or Kealia.

[Banjo-guy]

"Mr. Beers "put your tools in your lbk to sanatize" is in general a bad idea in this regards. No matter how careful you are you will get little scratches in there."

I always thought that was bad advice also. I don't like aerating by splashing the wort with a spoon because it's hard not to accidentally hit the sides or bottom of the LBK. It doesn't seem like a good idea to put your hand in the opening with the wort just getting ready to ferment.
I like to pick the LBK up and shake it. Of course wort comes out of the lid vents so this methad is not great either.
I wonder if there is a way to block those vents without increasing the risk of infection and then unblocking the vents for fermentation?

[FedoraDave]

Okay, I just opened my test bottle of Some Kinda Amber Ale.

It's a little young yet. It was only in the fridge a couple of days. But it was a mild gusher.

Conclusion: It's the LBK. Gonna trash it and replace, first with a back-up LBK, and then with a 3 gallon carboy I saw at the LHBS.

I have to assume that the current batch of HopSLAMber Ale (due to be bottled this weekend) will also be a gusher.

Three batches down the drain.

[RickBeer]

Ah, Dave. It's 9AM...

[Chuck N]

If I was going to go back to the LBK type fermentor I would definitely get one of the B.D conicals instead of the Mr. Beer barrels. More money but looks a lot easier to clean with far fewer nooks and crannies to worry about.

[Brewbirds]

I have to assume that the current batch of HopSLAMber Ale (due to be bottled this weekend) will also be a gusher.

Since it isn't bottled yet maybe you could use PETs and off gas them every few days?

[Banjo-guy]

I just picked up a 2 gallon bucket and lid for some 1-1.5 batches.
I'll use my remaining 2 LBKs until they are no longer usable .

[FedoraDave]

Ah, Dave. It's 9AM...

It was ten AM where I come from, and I'm smoking a turkey. Smoking meat and brewing beer require drinking beer. Sorry, that's just a rule. Even if it's in the morning.

[RickBeer]

Says 9, and your time and my time match, but I do understand the rules...

[mashani]

If I was going to go back to the LBK type fermentor I would definitely get one of the B.D conicals instead of the Mr. Beer barrels. More money but looks a lot easier to clean with far fewer nooks and crannies to worry about.

I am very happy with mine. Cleaning is super easy, and the inside is completely seamless/smooth.

The only thing I will tell you is if you get them and use one step, mix it up in 1 gallon jugs and then pour it in once dissolved. The conical base likes to make "one step pellets" that don't dissolve easily if you do it right in the fermenter. After my first batch in them, I switched to that method and have no longer had any issues.

[ScrewyBrewer]

I found one step to be too expensive and slow working for my liking. The fact is the one step if not sully dissolved can probable be traced back to causing those scratches in the first place. Another way to cause scratches is when trying to remove hardened beer stone from your fermentors before its had time to soften and dissolve, an overnight oxiclean soak will fix that.

In all my years of brewing I've had only 1 batch of gushers and it was caused by using a galvanized strainer to catch leaf hops when filling the LBK. I solved that problem by tossing out the strainer and getting a stainless steel one in it's place. Other than that I've been using the same tubing and fermentors for years since and never had an entire batch of gushers since then. I would be pissed enough to scrap everything too though if the problem were to have continued. There's nothing worse than brewing that perfect beer only to have it fail in the packaging.