Saison?

[Gymrat]

The grain bill seems to fit the description but I am playing around with the hops. I am planning on using Lallemands Belle Saison yeast but that doesn't exist in beersmith so it is showing nottingham for the time being. Anyway this is the recipe I am playing with.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Farmhouse Ale
Brewer: Roger
Asst Brewer: Ralph the Wonderdog
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 75.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.1 %
3 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 28.6 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.8 %
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - First Wort 60. Hop 4 24.4 IBUs
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5 9.5 %
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 22.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 16.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 13.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 m Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz

[swenocha]

Looks good. The great thing IMHO about saisons is that you can do such a wide variety of grain and hop choices for this style. Let us know how it turns out...

[Rebel_B]

Looks good! I don't think you'll be disappointed using that yeast.

[mashani]

One thing to ponder. That's going to come across very much like a massively bitter 120+ IBU IPA because of the IBUs and the yeast choice. (The hop forward nature isn't such a biggie to me, I like hop forward saisons... and my nelson sauvin saison is very tasty. but the IBUs....)

The reason I quote such a high number - Ponder this. The Bella Saison is going to ferment that out to 1.000 or even 0.997 or something stupid like that with a light body mash. I was making extract beers with it that finished at 1.003 or 1.002 this summer. It's just like French Saison. It eats EVERYTHING.

So there is going to be NO residual sweetness to balance the IBUs. The beer will seem tart and dry even with only 20-30 IBUs with that low of a final gravity.
I like my hoppy saisons to be 30-40 IBUs.

So at the very least, personally, I'd totally ditch the FWH or the 15 minute addition, or else cut them in half at least.

[swenocha]

Good point, Mash. I totally missed that. I have come around on Nelson Sauvin, but I might cut back the IBU and punch up the flavor/aroma hops instead of the bitter. But that's just personal pref.

[russki]

On the other hand, NS has the softest bitterness of any hop I've tried - I did an all-NS IPA that had 100-ish calculated IBUs, and it was not bitter at all. Maybe move the FWH to 20 min? Mmm...white grape saison... Now that sounds good.

[Gymrat]

How does this look?

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Farmhouse Ale
Brewer: Roger
Asst Brewer: Ralph the Wonderdog
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 57.1 %
3 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 28.6 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.8 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4 9.5 %
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 11.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 16.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 13.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 m Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz

[mashani]

On the other hand, NS has the softest bitterness of any hop I've tried - I did an all-NS IPA that had 100-ish calculated IBUs, and it was not bitter at all. Maybe move the FWH to 20 min? Mmm...white grape saison... Now that sounds good.

Check this out Russki. I'm going to make it one of these days.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/anti ... rains.html

@Gymrat, that's going to be GRAPE! But delicious I think. I might move the @15 hops to @20 just to make sure I get good utilization out of them.

[Gymrat]

Is the corn sugar addition going to be OK or should I replace it with some more 2 row?

[Gymrat]

Is 9% too high for Aromatic Malt?

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Farmhouse Ale
Brewer: Roger
Asst Brewer: Ralph the Wonderdog
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 54.5 %
3 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 27.3 %
1 lbs Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.1 %
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 22.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 8.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 4.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand #) Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs

[mashani]

Corn sugar is fine up to 20% if you really want to go that far. You do not *need* it, but it's fine. It just depends on what you want. I would personally only use 20% corn sugar in an extract batch to get a similar result as a lower temp mash if I wanted to brew a higher gravity but very dry saison. Typically I brew lower gravity saisons. Even at 1.05 you still get a good amount of ABV since they ferment out so dry, and I don't think you *need* it in your beer if brewing with highly fermentable mash.

I never use Aromatic Malt in saisons. I hardly ever use it at all even in a dubbel or a quad - I just use more Munich. That's just my preference, not because it's a bad thing, but I think of Aromatic malt as malt for people who are afraid to use more Munich, which is not me LOL.

[Gymrat]

Corn sugar is fine up to 20% if you really want to go that far. You do not *need* it, but it's fine. It just depends on what you want. I would personally only use 20% corn sugar in an extract batch to get a similar result as a lower temp mash if I wanted to brew a higher gravity but very dry saison. Typically I brew lower gravity saisons. Even at 1.05 you still get a good amount of ABV since they ferment out so dry, and I don't think you *need* it in your beer if brewing with highly fermentable mash.

I never use Aromatic Malt in saisons. I hardly ever use it at all even in a dubbel or a quad - I just use more Munich. That's just my preference, not because it's a bad thing, but I think of Aromatic malt as malt for people who are afraid to use more Munich, which is not me LOL.

I love munich

[Gymrat]

I went ahead and dumped a pound of corn sugar in this beer yesterday. That was 6 days after brewing it.