Simple Saison

[mashani]

Those amounts of grains are going to give you pretty intense roasty stout like flavors. Not just the darkness.

If you want ONLY darkness, I'd suggest you use a debittered dark malt (Carafa III or the like).

[monsteroyd]

This what I am thinking of doing.

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1 10.5 %
4.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.3 %
1 lbs Dark Dry Extract (17.5 SRM) Dry Extract 3 21.1 %
1.00 oz Styrian [5.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 4 26.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand #) Yeast 5 -
1 lbs Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 21.1 %
2 lbs Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 7 42.1 %

Monty

[BigPapaG]

The dark dme is designed for stouts and porters and typically has roasty flavors already due to some amount of roasted barley being in there...

You should consider that flavor profile (maybe you already have?) and what that brings to the arty in addition to your steep bill...

[mashani]

I'm going to go pick up a bottle of Duponts "Monks Stout" today. Been 'eyeing' them on the shelf for a few weeks. I am curious what a dry Belgian like "Stout" brewed by actual brewers that make Belgian/Saison beers would taste like, it will get me a feel for how this is going to turn out.

[monsteroyd]

The dark dme is designed for stouts and porters and typically has roasty flavors already due to some amount of roasted barley being in there...

You should consider that flavor profile (maybe you already have?) and what that brings to the arty in addition to your steep bill...

No i agree. i am worried about the amount of burnt / roasted flavor. Maybe just 4 oz of the choc malt to add a touch.

Monty

[mashani]

Well I went ahead and bought a bottle to take one for the team. It's not worth the price of admission, but it does give me ideas on what to do and what not to do. It's damn dry, from start to finish. It's clearly what amounts to a dry Irish stout grain bill with roasted barley as the prime dark grain. It comes across as almost as if there were ashes tossed in it in how roasty and dry and astringent it is. Almost like a mellow Rouchbier in this regards, as in it's making me feel like I smoked a cig.

So that sounds aweful I think but it's not a bad beer, it has a really nice tart cherry/sour plum thing going and interesting spice and chocolate flavors too like a good dubbel, much of it due to the Belgian yeast. But the roastyness is challenging and not something lots of folks would like, and the Belgian yeast is weird with all the smokey almost charcoal like stuff.

I read in most reviews how folks complain about the mouthfeel, but I dont' know how they could change this without either carbing it to insane levels, or brewing it at true dubbel/quad strength. This is modest, 5.2%, and bone dry, so it started at a pretty low OG. Using a normal British yeast I'd bet it's a 4%ish beer base. So basically on the low end of a saison strength beer - a table strength saison, which is mostly what I brew, as I like drinking them too much to make 7%+ saisons all the time. That much I appreciate, so I will not complain, but I would think it would have better mouth feel with a French saison strain, because that strain for some reason does leave a better mouthfeel even for bone dry beers then Belgian saison and some other Belgian yeasts at the same FG levels.

So anyways, consider this while you ponder your recipe.

P1090283.JPG (82.75 KiB) Viewed 802 times

[monsteroyd]

Awesome review Mashani. Thanks for the input.

I am thinking of just doing the 1 lb of dark DME and then steeping just 4 oz of the chocolate malt. It is supposed to replicate the farm kid over-roasting a bit of the malt while drying it out. So a little burnt but not entirely.

It may not turn out as dark as a stout, but still be towards the dark end of the range.

blacksaisonbs.jpg (68.78 KiB) Viewed 797 times

Monty

[monsteroyd]

OK, I think 4oz of Choc malt steeped with the 1 lb of darm DME was sufficient:

BlackSaisonSample.jpg (201.07 KiB) Viewed 795 times

Monty

[mashani]

It looks dark nuff

[jimjohson]

Awesome review Mashani. Thanks for the input.

I am thinking of just doing the 1 lb of dark DME and then steeping just 4 oz of the chocolate malt. It is supposed to replicate the farm kid over-roasting a bit of the malt while drying it out. So a little burnt but not entirely.

It may not turn out as dark as a stout, but still be towards the dark end of the range.

blacksaisonbs.jpg

Monty

lol waaayyy past the dark end of the range. ;P

[Funky Skunk Brewing]

Yeah, she's dark alright ... Way at the end of the SRM scale

[Brewbirds]

Hey Monty this thread started with you making a Saison.

You do know that stout is spelled STOUT not SAISON right?

[haerbob3]

Hey Monty this thread started with you making a Saison.

You do know that stout is spelled STOUT not SAISON right?

O wee grasshopper now you sound like me

[monsteroyd]

Wait! What? There is a 'T' in Saison? I'm confused.

Yeah, well, I make beer, and since I can make any kind I want I was curious about how a stout like beer would taste when fermented with saison yeast.

Next up is going to be an Orange saison.

Monty

[monsteroyd]

OK just did a grape Saison. Standard Saison; 1 lb wheat 1 lb Munich 1lb Golden DME 1 lb Pale LME, and one can concentrated white grape juice. Rehydrated Belle Saison yeast. 1.088 OG (too high) Next time I will drop .5 lb ME. 15 min Tettnanger 6.1% aa boil. 24 IBU

Monty