steeping vs partial-mash

[Ibasterd]

Hey guys. I am trying to understand the difference between steeping and partial-mash. As I understand it the main difference is the type of grains used not the technique. Steeping grains are specialty grains such as crystal malts and caraPils, that have undergone a process to remove fermentable sugars, which are used to empart flavor, mouthfeel and head retention? Where as other grains, such as two row, will release fermentable sugars.

I am looking for ways to supplement an extract kit. I have already done three batches of either Mr. beer or Brewdemon kits with steeping grains. Soaking the grains in 155 degree water for 30 min, drain and rinse grains with a bit more hot water, boiling and then adding extract as usual. Would a partial-mash involve the same process but with different grain?

I'm using the LBK so, 2 gal batches. So far I've done some combination of Cara Pils and crystal 40 equaling 1/2 lb per batch. Would the amount of grain change for a partial-mash vs steeping.

Thanks for the help guys.

[BlackDuck]

For the most part, you are correct. However, the mashing part of a partial mash would take more than the 30 minutes you would do in a steep. Most grains should mash for about an hour at a temp appx 150 (a few degrees lower for a thinner and more fermentable wort or a few degrees higher for a thicker and less fermentable wort), then be sparged (or rinsed) with additional hot water.

Here is a good guide to which grains require steeping and which require mashing: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart If there is an "X" in the column titled "Mash Req", then it must be mashed.

EDIT...it's important that you can maintain a fairly steady temp for the entire mash time. It's not as important to be that precise when steeping grains.

[Ibasterd]

Thanks BlackDuck. The Malt chart is a great resource.

[philm00x]

What Chris said. Since you've already done a grain steep, then it'll be second nature to mash grains. I started mashing grains via BIAB when I made the leap to PM and then finally to AG brewing. In the oven, it's a lot more steady temp control so I recommend just putting your mash pot with the grains in there unless it can't go into the 150s for temp. In which case, you'll just have to take care in monitoring the burner on the stove to make sure the temp stays fairly steady at the target mash temp you're looking for.

[mashani]

I'll +1 the oven mash. It's the simplest way to keep good/stable temps when you are doing small batches. I will argue that even if you "can't" get below the 150s because you are going for a more fermentable wort, really you *can* still do it - just use a little bit less base malt and then throw some dextrose or sugar in the boil. It can give you the same effect, even if it might annoy some AG snobby person.

[BlackDuck]

The oven method works awesome. And if your oven doesn't go down that low don't worry. Most ovens don't go that low. Turn it down to the lowest setting. Mine's low point is 170. Put the pot in there for 15 minutes, then turn the oven off and leave in there for the next 45 mintues. I used to do it this way before I was doing AG and it worked great.

[haerbob3]

a hard shell 12 pack cooler works very well too. That is what I used for my small batches

[The_Professor]

Hey guys. I am trying to understand the difference between steeping and partial-mash. As I understand it the main difference is the type of grains used not the technique. ...

The difference is the technique, as has already been stated. For steeping grain you want to think "making tea". You can steep by bringing the water up to a certain temp and adding the grain, adding the grain to room temp water and bringing it up to a certain temp, or even let it sit in room temp water for a longer period (cold steep). It is all "making tea". Mashing is different. There are certain temperature ranges and certain times you want to hold (or rest) the grain at to allow the enzymes to convert the starches to sugar. You are entirely correct that they sound really similar. I was trying all grain within a few months of checking out what a "mini-mash" was. Good luck.

[Dawg LB Steve]

Looking like this will be my next step in the progression on brewing, question I have is where should the boil volume be?
just an example, yesterday I did a steep of 30 mins instead of the 20 on .95 lbs ( say 1 lb) of grain in a small 1.5 gallon test batch, I used 3 qts for the steep, after draining the grain bag and started bringing up the temp for the boil I added 1.25 lbs of Pilsen DME. By the time the boil was done, I ended up with 4.5 Cups of concentrated wort, and ended up with a total batch of 1.375 gal. to get near the 1.048, (I hit 1.045) OG that QBrew had calculated, I have seen in previous discussions that aprox 40 ounces of water per pound of grain for mash/partial mash. How much sparge water per lb of grain, and then is water added then the boil is started? Say I do a 5 gallon batch, should the boil be more than 5 gallons to start with?

[haerbob3]

1.25 Quarts to a pound of grain is a standard. 1.25 to 1.5 being the preferred range for a mash. As stated before the huge difference between mashing & steeping is the technique. Mashing is all about temperature control. The temperature you mash at gives you the body of the beer. Generally Partial Mashing is done at a temperature that gives you maximum fermentability. Logic for this is that extracts are not as fermentable as the wort from the mash. I calculated my partial mashes to give me the gravity I needed for a full volume for a 60 or 90 minute boil. I used this to set my bitterness for the beer. Added the extract in the last 5 minutes of the boil.

I doubt that 30 mins of mashing generated much gravity. If the water temp was over 160* you mostly likely denatured the enzymes in the grain. What type of base malt did you use? Can you post your numbers from QBrew? the more information you give us the more we can help you.

[Dawg LB Steve]

I did a cream ale test batch,1.25 lbs Pilsen DME as I stated earlier, but messed up on stating the grain amt., used .5 lb of Flaked Corn and 3 oz of Honey Malt, (should have been .7 lbs not .95) steeped at between 152-156 degrees. Kind of looking ahead here for taking the next step of brewing, doing a BIAB recipe.

[haerbob3]

Doesn't QBrew give you the volumes you need? I have not used QBrew for at least 5 yrs, I do not remember much about it's functionality, I only used it when I was do the MR B recipe kits and there was a database for the MR B stuff. For a 5 gallon BIAB batch I do not know how much water you need. There are variables like the type of sparge:
1. No sparge, traditional BIAB
2. Batch sparge, no mash-out, with mash-out, drain tun before sparging? Yes, No? How many times to sparge?
3. Fly sparge, mash out yes or no?

With the no sparge & batch sparge method you should compensate for the lose of efficiency with these method by adding extra grain. I only did a few PM's before investing for all grain. I was getting 80% or more of my fermentables from the partial mash. I never regretted the switch, you have so much more freedom with AG!

[Dawg LB Steve]

Unless I've missed something QBrew didn't give any volumes for mashing and boiling. Will be researching this a little more before diving in, a lot of you use Beersmith, guess I'll look into that also.

[haerbob3]

I use Beersmith. One of the hardest aspects of using Beersmith is getting your equipment profile setup. Once you have this dialed in you should hit your numbers. I find the mash profiles very useful. Make a copy of the profile closest to what you use and/or doing rename and customize to your hearts content. I let the software take care of all of the little but necessary details.