LHBS: bad advice

[jimjohson]

Was in my lhbs Wednesday, was not paying close attention to another customer who was making hard cider. The guy was buying some campden tabs. Then I heard the manager and the op talking about "carb. tablets". Now this drew my attention, Carb tabs??? You can use pills to carb. after killing the yeast? They were talking about the carbonation pills like MrB & coopers sells. By this time the op had left so he didn't hear me ask, if you kill the yeast how are the carb tabs going to work? After all they are just basically "sugar pills". Pretty sure that's going to cost the op his batch of sparkling cider. I'm gonna have to start paying more attention when he's waiting on other customers.

[Brewbirds]

My LHBS also sells wine kits and I've heard discussions about add Camden tablets to the must for killing unwanted bugs. Seems you add the tablet and wait for 12 hours to pitch the yeast.

I've seen a lot of posts from people who didn't like using carb tabs, which if it just sugar drops seems weird, I wonder if it the coating?

[jimjohson]

Well my use of sugar should've been in quotes. Unsure of actual make up of the tabs, but seems to me it would have to be some kind of sugar. Then again, what do I know? I've seen the complaining also. Makes me wonder if the drops are dissolving. I know the op bought Camden and another bottle of pills, they were discussing killing the yeast. I assume one of those bottles was for that. I thought I read Camden was the yeast killer, but not interested in making wine, so I could be(probably am)mistaken.

[gwcr]

I use campden tablets to treat my water pre-mash. I crush 1/2 a tablet per 5 gallons of water. Removes the chlorine and chloramine almost instantly, and my beers have been much better since I started doing that. If you have high levels of chlorine/chloramine in your water supply, fill a 5 gallon bucket with the water. Put your face right next to the water and smell. Then add 1/2 of a crushed campden tablet and do the same thing. For me it goes from a slight swimming pool smell to mountain stream in about 5 seconds.

You are correct that they are also used in wine making to kill unwanted wild bugs.

[myhorselikesbeer]

Campden tablets contain Potassium or Sodium Metabisulphite and are used to kill the bacteria and wild yeast in the original must, comercial wine yeasts are resistant to the effects of sulphite. It is also used during racking of the wine to prevent oxidation. For wines that are being back sweetened it is used in conjunction with Potassium Sorbate to prevent refermentation as it prevents the yeast from multiplying. So the Campden, in the right dose, and carb drops, for convenience, should work fine..provided he is using the proper yeast.

[Bluejaye]

It's not clear to me what that guy at the LHBS was talking about. Obviously fancy "sugar cubes" aren't doing to do squat if the yeast is killed off. And Campden tablets have nothing to do with carbonation.

Wondering if there is something like mini-Alkaseltzer pills or something that he was talking about.

[Brewbirds]

Well JJ said the the customer was making a hard cider so my guess was that, like wine they were saying use the Camden to kill bugs that might be in the original ingredients before pitching and that the cider was intended to be a carbonated version using the carb drops.

Otherwise as JJ interprets, holy cow, beware of the advise you get from the guys at your LHBS.

Is my understanding of your observations correct JJ?

I know we have had some conversations with our LHBS guys leave a raised eyebrow or two between us on occasion; I get the impression of a slight reluctance on their part to get into "detailed" advise.

I guess that is understandable if you get all types of people coming in and asking any number of questions, from totally no clue or completely off the wall stuff, and then get some kind of grief down the road.

[John Sand]

I don't know if you misunderstood or not. But bad LHBS advice happens. The first guy I dealt with at my LHBS told me that fermentation temperature didn't matter. He also said that all DME types were the same, ie, wheat and light. I admit, I was only using it as a portion of the recipe. But I knew when I heard those things that they were wrong. I was a rookie, but I'd studied some. And those replies defied common sense. I didn't stop shopping there, but I did stop listening to that guy.

[D34THSPAWN]

I love asking questions that I have done some research about and know the answer already to people who say they know what they are talking about...usually end up finding out they are talking out of their posteriors.

[jimjohson]

they seemed to think the carb drops would carbonate the cider after they used one of those "pills" to kill the yeast like they do in wine. when I heard they could carb like that I got interested in how that worked. by the time I understood what they thought, the other customer was gone. so I could not correct the soon to be problem. the manager told me, after killing the yeast put in 1 tab and you'll have sparkling cider. I told him they're sugar pills.

Birds, your right about all kinds of people coming in and asking not easily answered questions. I answer what I can while I'm there, try to direct them here. though I don't see any of them here

[jimjohson]

It's not clear to me what that guy at the LHBS was talking about. Obviously fancy "sugar cubes" aren't doing to do squat if the yeast is killed off. And Campden tablets have nothing to do with carbonation.

Wondering if there is something like mini-Alkaseltzer pills or something that he was talking about.

that's the kind of thing I thought when I over heard, but no it was regular carb drops

[radonc73]

He'll know if they didn't kill the yeast some time soon I guess.. Fireworks with glass bottles would suck.

[mashani]

I dunno... maybe he was trying to sell this stuff:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/prim ... count.html

I have no idea what it is, I just stumbled upon it... but it says it works even with unviable yeast, which suggests it's not just sugar in a pill.

Does anyone know what this really is? Works out to 20c a bottle. Which is a good bit more expensive then my dominos dots, but not out of line with other carb drop types of stuff.

[jimjohson]

here is what they were talking about; http://www.amazon.com/Coopers-Brew-Prod ... B003E5ZYB8 I made him(manager) point to the product. the op bought 2 small bottles, besides the coopers drops. one I know was Camden, the other... well I think(but not sure) I heard acid in the name if that helps at all. I really didn't start paying attention till the carb pills were brought up. just happened to be close enough to over hear without trying. this is why I don't really know what was in the second bottle I know the manager said it kills yeast and I had heard the name Camden also in the conversation. I made an assumption that that was the yeast killer. actually by the time I realized what they just said, the sale was completed and the conversation had moved on to how he planned to bottle it up. it took a couple minuets for the coin to work thru the slot, never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed :P

but wow mashani that may indeed be what he thought above was. I will send him this link. ty