When is an IPA not one????

[haerbob3]

I was reading some posts over at Beersmith. Someone had asked about brewing a session strength IPA. Some feel as though this brew does not exist, by definition. An IPA is a strong hoppy ale. Others that an IPA can not have American Hops in it. Others that a session strength IPA is a Pale Ale by another name.

The question for tonight is:
When is an IPA not an IPA??? What are the BORG's thoughts & feelings on this hoppy debate??

[BlackDuck]

It might depend on what your definition of a "session" IPA is. For example, a Saison is traditionaly a "session" beer, but I've seen those at quite a high ABV. I can see the argument that a session IPA is a Pale Ale. However, you could brew a lower ABV IPA but it could still have a high number of IBU's and a good strong hop aroma that would keep it in the IPA category.

[Beer-lord]

I think there are 3 types of IPA's.....American, English and Double/Imperial IPA but each have subsets.
But, I've always followed the BJCP guidelines....(sorry it's so long)

14. INDIA PALE ALE (IPA)
14A. English IPA
Aroma: A moderate to moderately high hop aroma of floral, earthy or fruity nature is typical, although the intensity of hop character is usually lower than American versions. A slightly grassy dry-hop aroma is acceptable, but not required. A moderate caramel-like or toasty malt presence is common. Low to moderate fruitiness, either from esters or hops, can be present. Some versions may have a sulfury note, although this character is not mandatory.
Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to light copper, but most are pale to medium amber with an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with off-white color should persist.
Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, with a moderate to assertive hop bitterness. The hop flavor should be similar to the aroma (floral, earthy, fruity, and/or slightly grassy). Malt flavor should be medium-low to medium-high, but should be noticeable, pleasant, and support the hop aspect. The malt should show an English character and be somewhat bready, biscuit-like, toasty, toffee-like and/or caramelly. Despite the substantial hop character typical of these beers, sufficient malt flavor, body and complexity to support the hops will provide the best balance. Very low levels of diacetyl are acceptable, and fruitiness from the fermentation or hops adds to the overall complexity. Finish is medium to dry, and bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. If high sulfate water is used, a distinctively minerally, dry finish, some sulfur flavor, and a lingering bitterness are usually present. Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions. Oak is inappropriate in this style.
Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.
Overall Impression: A hoppy, moderately strong pale ale that features characteristics consistent with the use of English malt, hops and yeast. Has less hop character and a more pronounced malt flavor than American versions.
History: Brewed to survive the voyage from England to India. The temperature extremes and rolling of the seas resulted in a highly attenuated beer upon arrival. English pale ales were derived from India Pale Ales.
Comments: A pale ale brewed to an increased gravity and hop rate. Modern versions of English IPAs generally pale in comparison (pun intended) to their ancestors. The term “IPA” is loosely applied in commercial English beers today, and has been (incorrectly) used in beers below 4% ABV. Generally will have more finish hops and less fruitiness and/or caramel than English pale ales and bitters. Fresher versions will obviously have a more significant finishing hop character.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); English hops; English yeast that can give a fruity or sulfury/minerally profile. Refined sugar may be used in some versions. High sulfate and low carbonate water is essential to achieving a pleasant hop bitterness in authentic Burton versions, although not all examples will exhibit the strong sulfate character.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.050 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 60 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 8 – 14 ABV: 5 – 7.5%
Commercial Examples: Meantime India Pale Ale, Freeminer Trafalgar IPA, Fuller's IPA, Ridgeway Bad Elf, Summit India Pale Ale, Samuel Smith's India Ale, Hampshire Pride of Romsey IPA, Burton Bridge Empire IPA,Middle Ages ImPailed Ale, Goose Island IPA, Brooklyn East India Pale Ale

14B. American IPA
Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops. Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable. Some alcohol may be noted.
Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with white to off-white color should persist.
Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects. Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish. Some clean alcohol flavor can be noted in stronger versions. Oak is inappropriate in this style. May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit this character.
Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions. Body is generally less than in English counterparts.
Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately strong American pale ale.
History: An American version of the historical English style, brewed using American ingredients and attitude.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); American hops; American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate. Versions with a noticeable Rye character (“RyePA”) should be entered in the Specialty category.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.056 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 70 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 6 – 15 ABV: 5.5 – 7.5%
Commercial Examples: Bell’s Two-Hearted Ale, AleSmith IPA, Russian River Blind Pig IPA, Stone IPA, Three Floyds Alpha King, Great Divide Titan IPA, Bear Republic Racer 5 IPA, Victory Hop Devil, Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, Anderson Valley Hop Ottin’, Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA, Founder’s Centennial IPA, Anchor Liberty Ale, Harpoon IPA, Avery IPA

14C. Imperial IPA
Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma that can be derived from American, English and/or noble varieties (although a citrusy hop character is almost always present). Most versions are dry hopped and can have an additional resinous or grassy aroma, although this is not absolutely required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is typical. Some alcohol can usually be noted, but it should not have a “hot” character.
Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with off-white color should persist.
Flavor: Hop flavor is strong and complex, and can reflect the use of American, English and/or noble hop varieties. High to absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will generally support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. A long, lingering bitterness is usually present in the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish. A clean, smooth alcohol flavor is usually present. Oak is inappropriate in this style. May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit this character.
Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium body. No harsh hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Smooth alcohol warming.
Overall Impression: An intensely hoppy, very strong pale ale without the big maltiness and/or deeper malt flavors of an American barleywine. Strongly hopped, but clean, lacking harshness, and a tribute to historical IPAs. Drinkability is an important characteristic; this should not be a heavy, sipping beer. It should also not have much residual sweetness or a heavy character grain profile.
History: A recent American innovation reflecting the trend of American craft brewers “pushing the envelope” to satisfy the need of hop aficionados for increasingly intense products. The adjective “Imperial” is arbitrary and simply implies a stronger version of an IPA; “double,” “extra,” “extreme,” or any other variety of adjectives would be equally valid.
Comments: Bigger than either an English or American IPA in both alcohol strength and overall hop level (bittering and finish). Less malty, lower body, less rich and a greater overall hop intensity than an American Barleywine. Typically not as high in gravity/alcohol as a barleywine, since high alcohol and malt tend to limit drinkability. A showcase for hops.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for single-temperature infusion mashing); can use a complex variety of hops (English, American, noble). American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.070 – 1.090
IBUs: 60 – 120 FG: 1.010 – 1.020
SRM: 8 – 15 ABV: 7.5 – 10%
Commercial Examples: Russian River Pliny the Elder, Three Floyd’s Dreadnaught, Avery Majaraja, Bell’s Hop Slam, Stone Ruination IPA, Great Divide Hercules Double IPA, Surly Furious, Rogue I2PA, Moylan’s Hopsickle Imperial India Pale Ale, Stoudt’s Double IPA, Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Victory Hop Wallop

[Rebel_B]

Following the style guidelines, if it is < 5 % ABV, then it is not an IPA. Call it what you want; the only time these descriptors are applied is in competition.

[Rebel_B]

Following the style guidelines, if it is < 5 % ABV, then it is not an IPA. Call it what you want; the only time these descriptors are applied is in competition.

Just kidding! These styles are a guideline for a reason, if it is a low ABV, then it is NOT an IPA!

[mashani]

To me a "session" is drinking 2 beers. So I brew what I call "session" IPAs by brewing a low 5%ish beer and adding Munch or Vienna to my grain bill to kick up the malt presence, and then over hopping it because with the extra malt I can. It "seems" like a stronger balanced/hoppy 6-7.5% IPA from a flavor standpoint, but it doesn't kill my liver after a day of run/bike/swim or cross country skiing. And by definition it's still and IPA too LOL.

[FedoraDave]

Then there's the question of the Black IPA. By definition, an IPA is a pale ale, so a Black IPA is a contradiction in terms. How can something that is pale be black?

AFAIK, the BJCP hasn't come up with a set of definitions for this beer yet.

[BigPapaG]

Perhaps the answer is in the definition of a "session" beer or ale...

Seems 5% ABV is the high end cutoff as defined by BeerAdvocate...

http://beeradvocate.com/articles/653/

"Any beer that contains no higher than 5 percent ABV, featuring a balance between malt and hop characters (ingredients) and, typically, a clean finish - a combination of which creates a beer with high drinkability. The purpose of a session beer is to allow a beer drinker to have multiple beers, within a reasonable time period or session, without overwhelming the senses or reaching inappropriate levels of intoxication. (Yes, you can drink and enjoy beer without getting drunk.) "

So, it follows that:

On one hand, since an IPA as defined by the BJCP guidelines can be from 5-7.5% ABV, it seems to me that a 5% IPA would qualify as a Session IPA... And as mashani said, brewing it with a fair amount of Munich or Vienna for example can lend the perception of a bigger beer.

On the other hand, as Dave pointed out there is not yet a BJCP guideline for a 'Black IPA'. There is one on the planning table for what is being clled a 'Cascadian Dark Ale' which seems to fit the bill and although there is no 'official' word on the ABV range for such an ale, one could certainly apply the term 'session' to a Cascadian Dark Ale that weighed in at 5% ABV of less IMHO.

In summary, if I had a 5% IPA in one hand and a 5% Cascadian Dark Ale in the other, I would certainly consider it a 'session' and happily consume both!

[Brewbirds]

From gleaning the responses I see:

An IPA with no more than 5% ABV made from English malts, yeast and hops, possessing a coppery orange color in the range of 40 - 60 IBUs.

A moderately high hopped beer with a supporting malt profile that is generally bisquity and or nutty in flavor and aroma.

[haerbob3]

An IPA with no more than 5% ABV made from English malts, yeast and hops, possessing a coppery orange color in the range of 40 - 60 IBUs.

A moderately high hopped beer with a supporting malt profile that is generally bisquity and or nutty in flavor and aroma.

BB I think an IPA needs to be over 5%. Basically we all brew the way we want anyway. I just thought this be a fun topic for discussion. Hell, as long as it is a good tasting beer I don't care.

[Yankeedag]

Why not just call the "Black IPA" a Black Hopper... or is that racist? That definition changes every 15 min according to the news...

[DaYooper]

Hmmm, I have to wonder about the criteria. One of SWMBOs favorite beers is Founder's All Day IPA which weighs in at 4.7%. Clearly this is below the minimum of 5%. Yet, it won a 2010 GABF silver medal.

[BlackDuck]

I love topics like these....makes me want to go and write up a recipe. I will now open up BeerSmith and get to work!!!

[Chuck N]

For me this is all immaterial. I'm a lone lover of beer. None of my buddies share anything like the passion that I have for any beer. If it doesn't say "Lite" on the can then they don't want it. Which is fine for me because then I know exactly how much beer I have to bring to party(ies). I also don't have to be concerned with staying "within style" when I'm making a beer as no one but myself is going to know weather my beer conforms to a style or not.

But I would like to some day enter a beer or two into a contest. So I still try to at least make an effort to stay within style with my beers.

In addition, I have to agree with Dave again; How can a black beer be called an IPA?

[Kealia]

Count me in the group that thinks that there is such thing as a "session IPA". I would consider a lighter ABV, highly hopped beer to be an IPA if the hops were dominant enough. Or maybe I would think of it as an overly hopped pale ale. Dammit, now my heads hurts.

It's actually a really good discussion. A highly hopped, low ABV beer would TECHNICALLY be an APA, but I feel there is a (perceived) cutoff in my brain of when a beer crosses over from APA to IPA.