Brewing software cheating?

[FedoraDave]

When I went to the LHBS yesterday, I struck up a conversation with another guy there. I mentioned brewing software, and he said he considered that cheating. I asked why, and the only thing he could really articulate about his feelings was that it just seemed to cut-and-dried, and brewing should be more about just making good beer.

I made the case that better beer can be made by working within style parameters, and I considered brewing software no different in that regard than the BJCP style guidelines, the malt characteristic chart I refer to, and the various brewing books I consult.

It didn't occur to me until this morning that I should have told the guy, "Okay, I'd like you to come to my house and share some of my homebrew with me. Here's my address. I'm not going to give you directions, though, and I don't want you to use a map or GPS to find me."

Maybe that would have made my point a little better.

[Rayyankee]

I agree with you Dave i have only been using Beer Smith for the last few brews i have done but i find it a great tool and dont think of it as cheating in any way. if nothing else i find it helps me to see how i am doing with my efficiency on my all grain beers.

[jimjohson]

I know what you mean Dave. the manager At my lhbs thinks I "obsess" over numbers. he brews by the "seat of his pants" doesn't seem to grasp repeatability. I never could get q brew to work on this 'puter but I found hopville and loved it...until they became brewtoad and went way down hill . then I bought BeerSmith, & once you get it all set up, it's even better than hopville was.

[FedoraDave]

Don't get me wrong; there have been (and likely will be) plenty of times when I just figure I'll grab some extract or some grains and throw something together for a quick small batch. And I know enough to know it's going to be beer. But those are recipes I'm doing quick 'n' dirty, just to get something brewed, and I don't care what style it may or may not fit into.

But I also want repeatability for a lot of my recipes. And if I have an idea for a new recipe or want to try a style of beer I've never done before, you better believe I'm going to research the style on the BJCP site, and then do some stuff with QBrew so it stays within the parameters of the style. After that, I'll see what the final result is; how I like it; and what I might be able to do with future batches to improve and customize it.

[jimjohson]

Don't get me wrong; there have been (and likely will be) plenty of times when I just figure I'll grab some extract or some grains and throw something together for a quick small batch. And I know enough to know it's going to be beer. But those are recipes I'm doing quick 'n' dirty, just to get something brewed, and I don't care what style it may or may not fit into.

But I also want repeatability for a lot of my recipes. And if I have an idea for a new recipe or want to try a style of beer I've never done before, you better believe I'm going to research the style on the BJCP site, and then do some stuff with QBrew so it stays within the parameters of the style. After that, I'll see what the final result is; how I like it; and what I might be able to do with future batches to improve and customize it.

been a couple times he didn't have what I wanted and had to improvise right there on the spot so he knows i'll do it. my point was he don't believe the numbers are needed at all...and well I guess they're not if you don't mind different results with every repeat batch you do.

[haerbob3]

I would be lost without Beersmith. To be that would be like brewing with out a thermometer!! The main thing for me is having the mash & equipment profiles. Let the software take care of, keep track of all the nuts & bolts of brewing and I'll take care of the creative end.

FedoraDave said:
It didn't occur to me until this morning that I should have told the guy, "Okay, I'd like you to come to my house and share some of my homebrew with me. Here's my address. I'm not going to give you directions, though, and I don't want you to use a map or GPS to find me."
^^^^^^^
I love that reference Dave, I am going to have remember that one.

[Kealia]

That's an interesting take, for sure. I can appreciate somebody that wants to just wing it but would never call them something negative for doing so.

Hopefully the discussion/exchange wasn't overly negative. I do find sometimes that brewers do start to think in hierarchical ways sometimes. AG is better than extract, glass is better than plastic, this is better than that.....

In the words of Rodney King, ........ok, I won't actually say them.

Cheers.

[FedoraDave]

I didn't mention that the guy told me he wanted to open his own brewery eventually. That kind of made visible cartoon question marks shoot out of my head. Personally, I think knowing as much as possible about classic styles is a must for a professional brewer. How can you just wing it or improvise in those circumstances? Creating a unique variation on something requires a thorough knowledge of the original. Thus has it always been, or as Picasso put it, "I had to learn how to draw like an adult before I could draw like a child." And that's how he made history.

[mashani]

I make what likely seems to be "seemingly random" beers to a lot of you, but in most cases - as in if I don't know the recipe in my head - I use brewing software to make sure I'm not doing something totally stupid by accident.

[ScrewyBrewer]

I can see some brewers asking new hires to brew a recipe on paper, in fact the head brewer at Triumph said this himself recently during a brewery tour. To me it's like using a calculator on when taking a test, it makes crunching the numbers so much faster. Of course crunching the numbers on paper or a calculator should still yield the same results in the end. Maybe the guy has been brewing the same few recipes for years and has them memorized, it could happen.

[GOF]

We have most of the knowledge of the world at our fingertips. No sense at all in using it just for the porn.

[John Sand]

I think it's silly too. My Pop liked doing everything his own way, even baking. Except that he wasn't an experienced baker. I usually use printed recipes. I often use a brewing slide-rule (yes, I have one). But any time I make significant changes, or formulate my own recipe, I run it through a program. But, if he likes his process and results, good for him.

[monsteroyd]

How the heck would you know how long to boil stuff to get your target IBU if you didn't use something like BeerSmith? I have it dialed in and it is super helpful with amounts and durations. That guy can go brew off his head, but he won't make the same beer twice, or remember what it was that he liked or didn't like, and if you don't keep records, how would you know when to drink it? Maybe he has a photographic memory or something, especially if he wants to brew professionally.

I don't know, Beersmith works great for me, and I have way more recipes I've designed with it than I have brewed. No, it isn't cheating to use brew software, but it isn't absolutely needed, but for me, I'd never be able to know which hops / yeast / malts etc I like and don't like. You need to have some kind of record keeping. I was doing it all in a spreadsheet, and that worked, but Beersmith does so much more.

Monty.

[GOF]

How the heck would you know how long to boil stuff to get your target IBU if you didn't use something like BeerSmith? I have it dialed in and it is super helpful with amounts and durations. That guy can go brew off his head, but he won't make the same beer twice, or remember what it was that he liked or didn't like, and if you don't keep records, how would you know when to drink it? Maybe he has a photographic memory or something, especially if he wants to brew professionally.

I don't know, Beersmith works great for me, and I have way more recipes I've designed with it than I have brewed. No, it isn't cheating to use brew software, but it isn't absolutely needed, but for me, I'd never be able to know which hops / yeast / malts etc I like and don't like. You need to have some kind of record keeping. I was doing it all in a spreadsheet, and that worked, but Beersmith does so much more.

Monty.

Or perhaps he does it all with paper and pencil. They were brewing beer long before the computer. But yeah, I see no reason not to use the programs now that they are here. It's like walking from NY to LA because airplanes are cheating.

[DaYooper]

In grade school they made us do math by hand before we could use a calculator. They told us that it would be helpful should we not have a calculator handy. However, I do not see getting stranded on Mt. Everest without a computer and a handy copy of Beersmith something that will happen to me in the near future. As that guys sees it, unless you go into your LHBS and randomly grab a bunch of stuffs you are cheating since either you are working off a new recipe or modifying an old one.