mashing efficiencies

[woody]

hi all, pretty new here but from what I see about efficiency in this set up is that there are two things that jump out. stepping rye instead of mashing and the possibility of mash ph and more importantly in this case, sprage water ph may be high. need to test the waters. ha ha just made a joke and did not mean to. anyway. without spending money on ph meter, you could sprage with 75% ro water .this would help keep the ph down In way of less bicarbonate.(not sure what your water profile is) and mash the rye ,get rice hulls. P.S i'm not saying that sprage ph is the problem but when I started using ro mix to sprage I got better numbers.

[MadBrewer]

Agreed. I haven't used QBrew in 5 or 6 years, can you set an equipment profile? OP also needs to have a set methodology to get his software set. What efficiency is he working on? Mash efficiency, Brew-house efficiency. What king of losses does he have? As you know there are so many factors that effect efficiency.

Thats what is so simple with QBrew it just uses overall effeciency so as long as things go well he should have his batch size amount he used in QBrew at the end of the boil. The OG at the end of the boil should be what was estimated in Qbrew. There is no equipment setup or any other losses. The simple brewing calculators base everything on post boil volume...what you have at the end of the boil. Wether all or half of that goes into the fermenter...thats erelevant. You would still for example have 5 gals of X gravity wort.

[haerbob3]

Agreed. I haven't used QBrew in 5 or 6 years, can you set an equipment profile? OP also needs to have a set methodology to get his software set. What efficiency is he working on? Mash efficiency, Brew-house efficiency. What king of losses does he have? As you know there are so many factors that effect efficiency.

Thats what is so simple with QBrew it just uses overall effeciency so as long as things go well he should have his batch size amount he used in QBrew at the end of the boil. The OG at the end of the boil should be what was estimated in Qbrew. There is no equipment setup or any other losses. The simple brewing calculators base everything on post boil volume...what you have at the end of the boil. Wether all or half of that goes into the fermenter...thats erelevant. You would still for example have 5 gals of X gravity wort.

It is all of those things that beersimth keeps track of that makes it the better option for me. Well that should make easier to track this critter down then. I have downloaded QBrew and will run the numbers thru it when I get the chance. I am still recouping I got out of the hospital yesterday.

[mtsoxfan]

All great info.
I usually don't steep flaked grains, this was a large amount of grains, 14#, and I wanted to have room for a thinner mash. I did research it, and found (one site) that the heat from the rollers used to "flake" the grain gets hot enough to be considered cooking.
When I did my 3rd sparge, I did add the flaked rye to that. I guess that could help explain the 1.028.
It isn't brewhouse effeciency I was after, it was mash efficiency. I used an online calculator that takes preboil volume, pre boil gravity and amount of grains and calculates it out. (there may have been another piece of info in there as well)
The numbers I plugged into QBrew for volume was 5.5 gals. With said grain bill, and not knowing about the efficiency option, projected OG was 1.077. If I took out flaked rye, it went to 1.068.

[MadBrewer]

Ok 5.5 gals...that makes a difference on the numbers. You originally said 5 gals. I see now...yeah if you take out the Flaked Rye that you steeped at 65% effeciency you end up with exactly what you got. 75% effeciency with the Flaked Rye mashed would have given you the 1.077 you wanted.

I would however be careful of double and tripple Sparges...you can end pulling more bad out of the grains than good trying to extract every last drop of sugars out of the grains.

To get higher effeciency keep a fine crush use a higher water to grain ratio of 1.5 qts per lb or more and perform an iodine test to check conversion. You may need to go 75 min on your mash or longer...thats ok. Try doing a mashout with hot water at the end of the mash and batch sparge only once or twice.

[mtsoxfan]

Thanks for all the help. I've been under the weather the last few days, thinking a cold, but ended up brewing with a fever. Good thing I took notes... I was using Brewer's Friend calculator to figure mash eff.

Since going AG, on the advise of some, I've been doing 1.5/1 and even 1.75/1 mashes. Space permitting. I am envious of al those whose numbers are spot on, without having to do this, that, and the other thing. Hats of to you, you've got it dialed in.

I only did a third sparge yesterday for squeaks and giggles. That didn't go into my final product. It is sitting in fridge looking for something to do though...

My tun is small, fits 4.5 gals water and 13# of grain with a little room for more water to increase temp if needed. I need to do two batch sparges to get my preboil volume. I normaly get 2.5 - 3.5 gals from a 4.5 gal mash. So my first sparge is 2.5 gals and second is whatever I need to make up the difference.

I have been going finer crush, and dealing with stuck sparges, in the name of increasing efficiency numbers. (That is getting old)

I have been doing iodine testing for the last 4 or 5 batches. Always comes out ready, (amber)

I will start increasing my mash times, which is normally 60 minutes, except yesterday 70. More time to relax with a brew I guess.

[MadBrewer]

Sounds like you are on your way...it just takes some time to get dialed in. Everyone has a different setup and different process.

[haerbob3]

I have been using my current rig for a year now and I am still tweaking. Remember too that batch sparging is the least efficient method. I think the main reason I get the numbers that I do is because of the type of mash that I do, recirculation. When I was doing single infusion, batch sparge I got 70% efficiency. What helped me the most on getting dialed in was brewing the same recipe, for calibration. So take good notes, make one change at time till you are hitting where you want. Chasing a high efficiency number is a bit like chasing a high ABV. At a certain point you start losing more than you gain.

[MadBrewer]

This is true...im finally getting comfortable with my setup. Not only to hit my numbers and volumes but to make changes on the fly and adjust if I dont.

[haerbob3]

Is there anyway you could fly sparge? That will give you a couple more points.

[mtsoxfan]

HB, I thought about it, and came to the reaization that if I could just let it go, I'd be fine. I really like my beers, my numbers don't suck, they just aren't what they are "suppose" to be. I will try the suggestions posted, and hopfully they will increase a few points, and it won't seem like such a huge deal, like 10 pts. I know I can do it, just need to be more precise, or be happy with what I get.
But I'm not opposed to fly sparging if I can make a set up that doesn't run me too many $$..

Thanks all...

[haerbob3]

You most likely would need a second cooler, to fly sparge. As I said in an earlier post getting the high efficiency may hurt your flavor. You know that you are getting 65% which is good, most published recipes are based on this efficiency. Use the 65% in your calculations. As your methodology gets locked down your efficiency will go up. Another option would be to use the largest mash you can do at 1.75:1 and make up the GP with a little DME. You want to use the same ratio every time till you are dialed in.