A True Commercial ESB recommendation

[Brewbirds]

Hey all.

BB2 wanted to brew an ESB, so we did, but we have not had an example of one.

I'm a bit leery of the fact that he says we will carb this beer at less than our relatively low typical mini sugar cube volume.

I think I understand that the Brits don't carb their beers much or use ice in their drinks so to brew to style this beer should be carbed low but the question to me is will we like the results.

Before I, a carbonating/ice using American person, bottle this I would like the two of us to try an authentic ESB that we can find in the US.

Any suggestions that might be available in Texas bottle shops?

[Gymrat]

Maybe this will help.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/66/

[FedoraDave]

If you don't already use it, I recommend Screwy Brewer's site. There's a page there with a priming calculator, and I use it for every single batch I bottle.

As to whether you'll like the style or the carbonation level, well, that's up to you, of course. Whether you like it or not doesn't mean it's not a well-made beer.

[mashani]

I would have to think you can find a bottle of Fullers ESB in TX. If you want to understand the "baseline" for a high quality ESB, that's the beer you want to try first. There are commercial ESBs I like better, but that becomes more of a personal taste thing then anything else, and Fullers will give you a good idea of what an ESB is supposed to be all about. You will taste things - like a touch of diacetyl - that say in an APA would be considered a "defect" but in an ESB are totally appropriate.

If you can't find that look for Young's Ram Rod or Young's Special London Ale. Those should be available any place that has lots of types of beer.

Also FWIW, bottled British ESBs shipped over here are carbed more highly then they would be served in a pub across the pond. Don't stress about carbing them like an APA if you want, it will still taste good.

[FedoraDave]

Also, if you go to the BJCP site and look at the style guidelines, they list examples of commercial beers for that style. It's a place to start, anyway.

[swenocha]

For widely available ESBs that are traditional representations of the style, you can't go wrong with Fuller's and Young's. Sam Smith's Organic Pale is actually an ESB, and it is quite good. For US beers, Sweetwater Motorboat is great. Left Hand Sawtooth is also good, as are the ESBs from Victory, Redhook, and Bridgeport. For not-widely-available ESBs, Admiral Nelson from Three Floyds is great. Yazoo's ESB was top notch, but they haven't made it in maybe 8-10 years... :sadface:

[Kealia]

You will taste things - like a touch of diacetyl - that say in an APA would be considered a "defect" but in an ESB are totally appropriate.

This is why I don't like ESBs. I've found that I have no tolerance for diacetyl. I'm not always good at picking up flaws, but this one just jumps out at me and I can barely get anything down that has diacetyl in it.

But, as always, you're getting great advice here.

[mashani]

You will taste things - like a touch of diacetyl - that say in an APA would be considered a "defect" but in an ESB are totally appropriate.

This is why I don't like ESBs. I've found that I have no tolerance for diacetyl. I'm not always good at picking up flaws, but this one just jumps out at me and I can barely get anything down that has diacetyl in it.

But, as always, you're getting great advice here.

Yeah, I don't mind it in small amounts. So I'm good with it, but if I was a diacetyl super taster instead of an acetaldehyde super taster I'd probably think otherwise. You might be a diacetyl super taster.

[Brewbirds]

Yeah, I don't mind it in small amounts. So I'm good with it, but if I was a diacetyl super taster instead of an acetaldehyde super taster I'd probably think otherwise. You might be a diacetyl super taster.

Thanks guys, now I really need to get one of those you are recommending.

I am a super taster of some kind of phenolic like flavor that I pick up in our lighter beers that BB2 cannot taste.

[mashani]

Yeah, I don't mind it in small amounts. So I'm good with it, but if I was a diacetyl super taster instead of an acetaldehyde super taster I'd probably think otherwise. You might be a diacetyl super taster.

Thanks guys, now I really need to get one of those you are recommending.

I am a super taster of some kind of phenolic like flavor that I pick up in our lighter beers that BB2 cannot taste.

Out of curiosity, do you like German/Belgian wheat beers, or do you find them to be phenolic in a bothersome way? Some people who are super tasters of those kinds of phenols can't stand the things.

[Brewbirds]

Out of curiosity, do you like German/Belgian wheat beers, or do you find them to be phenolic in a bothersome way? Some people who are super tasters of those kinds of phenols can't stand the things.

Interesting that you ask about those because I'm getting it in a Saison we did with Pacific Jade hops, a white wheat with Galaxy and Cascade, a Blonde with Galena, no target I can find.

I just get hit with a weird phenolic/sharp herbal taste in our lighter (grain bill) beers that is totally off putting because it is so unpleasant that I can't find the "good" part of that beer and yet BB2, who doesn't get the same thing is finding them balanced and pleasant.

I think I need to see a taste bud doctor if this is going to persist, it certainly makes tasting days difficult.

[Rebel_B]

From the BJCP guidelines:
Commercial Examples
Examples: Fullers ESB, Adnams Broadside, Shepherd Neame Bishop's Finger, Young's Ram Rod, Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Pale Ale, Bass Ale, Whitbread Pale Ale, Shepherd Neame Spitfire, Marston's Pedigree, Black Sheep Ale, Vintage Henley, Mordue Workie Ticket, Morland Old Speckled Hen, Greene King Abbot Ale, Bateman's XXXB, Gale's Hordean Special Bitter (HSB), Ushers 1824 Particular Ale, Hopback Summer Lightning, Great Lakes Moondog Ale, Shipyard Old Thumper, Alaskan ESB, Geary's Pale Ale, Cooperstown Old Slugger, Anderson Valley Boont ESB, Avery 14'er ESB, Redhook ESB


I've had the Alaskan, Anderson Valley, & Redhook... I recommend them!

[mashani]

Out of curiosity, do you like German/Belgian wheat beers, or do you find them to be phenolic in a bothersome way? Some people who are super tasters of those kinds of phenols can't stand the things.

Interesting that you ask about those because I'm getting it in a Saison we did with Pacific Jade hops, a white wheat with Galaxy and Cascade, a Blonde with Galena, no target I can find.

I just get hit with a weird phenolic/sharp herbal taste in our lighter (grain bill) beers that is totally off putting because it is so unpleasant that I can't find the "good" part of that beer and yet BB2, who doesn't get the same thing is finding them balanced and pleasant.

I think I need to see a taste bud doctor if this is going to persist, it certainly makes tasting days difficult.

What yeast did you use in those beers? What temps did they ferment at? Saison yeast makes some of the same types of phenols as wheat beer yeast and Belgian yeasts, depending on fermentation temps.

Also you did put hops in all those beers that could contribute spicy/herbal flavors. There is the possibility that they are coming into play in your taste perception too.

RE: Previous post - Red Hook is probably easy to find and it's good. But I think it's not as good now as it used to be. I don't know if the recipe changed, or if it was just that I was drinking it fresh back in my time working in SeaTac area, but I don't find the bottled stuff around her to be as nice as it was back then.

[Brewbirds]

What yeast did you use in those beers? What temps did they ferment at? Saison yeast makes some of the same types of phenols as wheat beer yeast and Belgian yeasts, depending on fermentation temps.

Off the top of my head it has been in MauriBrew, Bella Saison, S-05 ans SafeBrew Wheat.

Except for the Saison all ferment at 66 F in coolers.

The flavor is almost like the "bandaide" from cloriphenols (sp?).

Thanks for tips on samples everybody I'll keep my eyes out for them at the store.

[mashani]

I can tell you that Safebrew Wheat is more of a clove oriented yeast more then banana esters, unless you ferment close to 78 degrees. It should not be Band-Aid like but if you are a super taster of that type of phenol, then who knows what you think... Bella could very well make small amounts of that same phenol although it tends more towards peppery. S-05 should not make it unless it was messed up/stressed. No experience with MauriBrew.

Pick up a german wheat beer and see if you just absolutely hate it. That will tell you if it's the clove phenol or something else.

Something else... you don't use bleach I assume... do you dechlorinate your water? You might want to try RO water and add minerals/ph balancing stuff as needed.