Question about kegging lagers

[FedoraDave]

I've come to learn that the secret of getting the most from a lager is the post-bottling lager time. Patience really pays off for this style.

But since I'm getting ready to enter the world of kegging, I'm curious; can you keg a lager once you've reached FG, and have it be properly conditioned once force carbonation is complete? Or is there a different protocol for this style?

[BigPapaG]

You can consider the keg to be a big bottle.

Once kegged, you can carbonate and then lager for a few weeks/months right in the keg.

Unfortunately, with lagers, this ties up a keg while it is lagering.

I have two corneys, so in winter, not really a problem as I can tie one up and serve ales from the other one and the numerous bottles I still use.

Come summer, not great to be down to only one serving keg...

Note to self: Buy another keg just for this reason!

[FedoraDave]

Thanks for the quick response. I intend to go with 2 corney kegs, and I might consider tying one up with a lager for an extended time maybe once a year. I don't make many lagers anyway.

There's a possibility that I'll make lagers in 2.5 gallon batches and bottle them so they can condition in the lager fridge, though. I'll have to give it some more thought.

I like the idea of being able to serve two different draft beers, but I also like the idea of having a lager on tap, too.

[ScrewyBrewer]

It's been a year since I brewed my last lager but I remember fermenting it for about three weeks and racking the 50F beer into a sanitized corny keg and leaving it in the refrigerator for another six weeks before carbonating and drinking it. I used an Oktoberfest yeast and that batch stands out as one of my best brews ever to this day. All my lagering gear is still in a storage unit, hopefully by August I'll be able to have my own dedicated brewroom setup and functioning again. Until then I'll keep thinking about that batch and mentally planning for another one in the coming months.

[Texas Dan]

Just my 2 cents worth, but I have lagered both in bulk and in bottle. I found that bulk lagering tends to give me a better tasting lager overall.

I did also see per John Palmer's "How to Brew", page 92; Quote: "Yeast activity is responsible for conditioning, so it seems logical that the greater yeast mass in the fermenter is more effective at conditioning than the smaller amount of suspended yeast in the bottle. This is why I recommend that you give your beer more time in the fermenter before bottling. When you add priming sugar and bottle your beer, the yeast goes through the same three stages of fermentation as the main batch, including the production of by-products. Endquote

Direct bottling of lagers must do the dual job of not only cleaning up the main batch but also cleaning up the by-products of the bottle fermentation with a limited amount of yeast.

I personally insure fermentation is at FG then bulk siphon to a plastic slim jim for lagering 4-6 weeks @ 39-42F in the frig. Then I bottle for the carbonation process.

[braukasper]

I just rack them to the keg and let sit. I often will naturally carb a lager in the keg. Keep your eyes open & pick up a couple more used kegs when you can. AIH often has 4 used kegs for under $150.

[Kealia]

Here's my thinking on this topic:

I did also see per John Palmer's "How to Brew", page 92; Quote: "Yeast activity is responsible for conditioning, so it seems logical that the greater yeast mass in the fermenter is more effective at conditioning than the smaller amount of suspended yeast in the bottle. This is why I recommend that you give your beer more time in the fermenter before bottling. When you add priming sugar and bottle your beer, the yeast goes through the same three stages of fermentation as the main batch, including the production of by-products. Endquote

I added the bold for emphasis.

I personally insure fermentation is at FG then bulk siphon to a plastic slim jim for lagering 4-6 weeks @ 39-42F in the frig. Then I bottle for the carbonation process.

This is where I don't believe the secondary does any good. Once you rack from primary you've reduced the amount of yeast in contact with the beer. Whether that is in secondary or individual bottles shouldn't make any difference because the ratio is the same. Using round numbers as examples, if you had 50M yeast cells in a 5G batch you have a set ratio of yeast to ounces of beer. If you divide those ounces of beer into 50 bottles you've also (in theory) distributed the yeast in the same ratio. So you may now have 1M cells in each of the 50 bottles but the beer:yeast ratio remains the same.

Now, if you're talking about leaving it in primary where there is more yeast than when you bottle then I agree that you *may* get more benefit from lagering in primary (fodder for a different discussion).

But in this instance I see no value in moving to secondary to lager and then bottling, carbing and then having to clean up yet again from the mini fermentation (i.e. carbonation).

My $0.02.

[Texas Dan]

I totally agree with you Kealia..
If possible I would lager in the primary, but I don't have the frig space to do that, so I am forced to go to a smaller profile as I share the frig with my better half. Autolysis shouldn't be a problem for the 4-6 weeks of lagering.

[Kealia]

Agreed. Sounds like a second fridge should be on the list for Father's Day

[Texas Dan]

You got that right. But since I'm regulated to my closet for fermenting, and politely asked to leave the kitchen to the patio for my boils as she can't stand the smell of hops, I doubt that I would find space for my own frig.

BTW, since there "may" be a slight residual fermentation going on during lagering until the yeast settles out completely, and the slim jim doesn't have an airlock, I just have to check it every few days to be sure it's not building up any pressure. I merely loosen the lid just a tad and quickly close it. Haven't had any pressure problems, oxidation or infections.

[ScrewyBrewer]

Once the yeast has soaked up all of the off flavor producing precursors in the beer and converted it into food reserves they go dormant and begin to settle out of the beer. This takes between three to four weeks if the correct amount of yeast was pitched to start with. Once they've done that you don't need them any longer if you are going to keg and force carbonate. Yeast and other things will drop out of suspension faster at colder temperatures leaving your beer cleaner and clearer, which is what we'd expect in a lager beer.

I always move my beer off of the yeast and into clean corny kegs to sit in the cold refrigerator for several weeks away from the yeast. You'd be amazed how little trub actually makes it into the kegs when you cold crash the fermentor for a week after the beer's at it's final gravity and the move it to the corny kegs. I actually cold crash the fermentors of ales and lager before packaging, the cleaner taste is worth the extra effort.