Frontal Hopotomy

[Kealia]

If it makes you feel any better I still wait 2 weeks on the keg with the "set and forget" method so I don't get it much faster than you.

[BlackDuck]

Today is the two week mark in the bottle. I put one bottle in the fridge yesterday for a 24 hour chill down. I usually wait 3 weeks before putting in the fridge, but I couldn't wait to try one. And with two cases of bottled beer, drinking one early surely isn't going to hurt the stock level.

My thoughts at this point: It poured nice, fairly clear for only 24 hours cold. Carbonation was light to medium, I think it will get better over the next week or so. The bitterness was surisingly high for only an ounce at 60 minutes and no others in the boil. The bitterness was really nice too, which is what I was expecting with so many IBU's coming from the steep. It was very balanced with the flavor. Now, on to the aroma....very dissapointed here. The aroma was almost non existent. Kind of a bummer, cause I'm sure that won't improve over the next few weeks.

So, at this point, here's my thoughts. Overall, a prominsing start to making a really good IPA. I think by keeping the 1 ounce at 60 minutes and the steep as is, but just adding some aroma additions too. OH, and something I just remembered. Since there were so many hops in the dry hop, I used hop sacks with no weight. And when I opened it up to transfer to the bottling bucket, the sacks were floating, so I may have lost some aroma since they weren't submereged. Who knows..... Anyway, I guess I'm still on my quest for an awesome IPA!!! But I continue to learn on every batch.

[Beer-lord]

I think you may still get a bit more aroma when the carb is better.
Summit is a pretty high alpha hop and it obviously has taken over a bit at this young age and I'm thinking it should get a bit milder as it ages.
It looks to be a nice recipe though so give it more time and it might surprise you.

[BlackDuck]

Good point Paul...thanks for mentioning that. I didn't think of the Summit doing that.

[Kealia]

The temp of the wort at the end of the steep was 186F.

Chris, I think this may be part of, if not the entire problem with the aroma. I'll look for citations tonight if I can but the more I think about this the more I think you need to be under 170 to keep from driving off the aroma.

I remember an experiment that somebody did a year or two ago on HBT where he opened bottles of bud lite and plopped a small hop pellet into each one......if you don't find the aroma in the next bottle or two there's something you can try!

[BlackDuck]

Ron...thanks for pointing that out. I had forgotten about that and I did not go back and read all the posts on this.

[BlackDuck]

Taste test number two. 3 full weeks conditioning and 48 hours in the fridge. This is in no way an IPA. Very little hop flavor and very little hop aroma. There is a nice bitterness though. In fact, I think most of the aroma and flavor I'm getting is coming from the Munich malt. And looking back, it's 9.1% of the grist, which may have been too much. It may make a nice malty fall season beer though. I hope my neighbors like this, cause it surely isn't one of my favorites. They can help me clear this one out of the pipeline.

I'm not done trying the hop stand technique though. Next time I will make sure I cool the wort down to 170 before the hop stand. And I will also use a hop selection that I am familar with. I used two new hops in this one, so I'm not even sure if the some of the flavor is coming from the hops too. Chalk this one up to a good learning experience on a new technique.

[Beer-lord]

I don't know about Ahtanum but I think you're getting what I got when using Summitt in bittering though I've read so many times how people love it. I have some left and will only use it in late additions and dry hopping.
If it's any consolation, read my post under Coconut IPA. We have beers to cry in I guess.

[BlackDuck]

Yea...I saw your post on the Coconut and replied.

[Kealia]

Stop the presses! Chris made a less than stellar beer??? What is the world coming to?

Not poking fun, just laughing WITH you. It just goes to show that you're actually human and not some weird ass brewing machine.

Sorry this one didn't work out.

[mashani]

What temperature did you do the hop stand at? I've gotten quite noticeable hop flavor/aroma out of just 1oz of hopstanded hops in 2.5 gallon batches (tossed in at 160 with a lid on the pot).

RE: Ahtanum - I personally think they are the most boring American hops in existence... but you used other stuff too, so ???

[BlackDuck]

What temperature did you do the hop stand at? I've gotten quite noticeable hop flavor/aroma out of just 1oz of hopstanded hops in 2.5 gallon batches (tossed in at 160 with a lid on the pot).

I really believe this is where the problem lies on this one. And Ron pointed it out to me earlier. I dropped the hops in a flameout and let them sit for 30 minutes. At the end of the 30 minute time frame the temp of the wort was 186F. Definitely too warm to get the flavor and aroma. Next time I'll take your response and Ron's and put them to use. I'll chill the wort down to 170 or a touch under first, then drop the hops in for the 30 minutes. This was a first attempt at a new process, now I've learned from my mistakes (and from the help of you guys) and will put that knowledge to good use the next time. Thanks for the help!!

While drinking it last night, after a little while, the flavor kind of grew on me. No, it's not the IPA I was looking for, but it's still beer. With all that Munich in there, it's kind of like a combination of the light bitterness in a pale ale with the malty sweet of an Oktoberfest. It even looks like an Oktoberfest!!

[Beer-lord]

So other than your 60 minute bittering, ALL the hops were added after flame out, right?
I've not done any hopstands below 170 and all mine are about 200-180 but I've also used a few 10,5 & 0 additions but the more I read, the more I see that the 160 degree hop stands don't do any more than dry hopping though you likely need more hops when you dry hop than when you hopstand.
This is interesting stuff for me.

[BlackDuck]

Yup...other than the bittering, there were no other hops in the boil. Just the hopstand and dry hopping!!

[mashani]

No, it's not the IPA I was looking for, but it's still beer. With all that Munich in there, it's kind of like a combination of the light bitterness in a pale ale with the malty sweet of an Oktoberfest. It even looks like an Oktoberfest!!

The 2.5 gallon BIAB beer I made that I called "Bier von Apollo" is like that but was at least at first more bitter and IPAish seeming then you describe. It was basically Oktoberfest grain bill (lots of Munich and Vienna) and German ale yeast (1007) with 2oz of 17%AA Apollo hops thrown in. Totally hop burst/hop stand, no bittering addition. 1/4oz ever 5 minutes T-25 to T-0 and then 1/2oz hop stand @170. Early on it was quite intense and very IPA like (in the dank/piney/dope like sense) with a fest bier vibe up front and in the finish - the more it ages the more fest bier it seems, although it's still not anything like a festbier, more like a totally wrong yet still delicious APA at this point. Everyone who I've shared it with who is not a total "west coast IPA only weenie" likes it a lot, so there is potential here. I am going to make that beer again over the winter but mix in some Amarillo or citrusy hop.