Pumpkin Rye Saison!!!

[Ibasterd]

I'm a BIG fan of pumpkin beers, so I'm doing one up next. I was going to do a more standard recipe based off Northern Brewer's "Smashing Pumpkin"http://www.northernbrewer.com/documenta ... umpkin.pdf, but then I found this gem and tweaked it a bit. It looks delicious and I can't wait to brew it up! Let me Know what you think, and I'll let you know how it turns out.
Title: Pumpkin Rye Saison

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 2 gallons (fermentor volume)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.060
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 5.56%
IBU (tinseth): 49.43
SRM (morey): 17.21

FERMENTABLES:
2 lb - American - Pale 6-Row (39%)
1.75 lb - German - Pilsner (34.1%)
0.75 lb - German - Rye (14.6%)
4 oz - American - Victory (4.9%)
4 oz - Belgian - Special B (4.9%)
2 oz - United Kingdom - Pale Chocolate (2.4%)

HOPS:
0.73 oz - Cluster, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.5, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 49.43

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
15 oz - organic canned pumpkin, Type: Flavor, Use: Mash
0.25 tsp - pumpkin pie spices, Time: 0 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil

YEAST:
White Labs - Belgian Saison I Yeast WLP565

[philm00x]

I think if the pumpkin were toasted a bit, it would play really well with the Victory malt. All together, seems like it'll definitely have some depth and character! I'd def try one

[Ibasterd]

Yep. What this recipe neglects to explain is that I plan on spreading the pumpkin puree out and baking (probably with some brown sugar on top) before adding to the mash. I've never had a rye pumpkin beer before, and with the pale chocolate malt and the saison yeast, this sounds really interesting.

[philm00x]

If only for reason of calculating an accurate OG, I would add however much brown sugar you use on the pumpkin purée into your grain bill. If it is a negligible amount like a tablespoon or two, then I wouldn't worry about it. But cool, yeah it'll definitely be a flavor packed beer!

[Inkleg]

I made a pumpkin beer a few years ago. Caramelized the puree in the oven like you are, but no brown sugar. It was a huge favorite with everyone. I'll see if I can find my notes for what temp and how long I had it in the oven. Looking forward to following this, curios to see how it turns out as a Saison.

Word of warning: THIS WILL BE THE SLOWEST DRAING WORT YOU HAVE HAD THROUGH YOUR BAG. I don't recall how long it took, but my arms started to falter holding the bag over the kettle. I call my wife and she grabbed a clean bucket for me. Finished my draining there and poured it in the boil kettle. I used 2 15oz cans of Libby's pumpkin puree.

[mashani]

Not saying it will not work, but I'm trying to imagine the pumpkin pie spices with bubblegum from the Belgian saison and I'm not sure...

I personally think I would use French saison to get more of a citrus vibe then the bubblegum... I think if I was going to go with the Belgian, I'd leave out the spices and let the bubblegum play against the pumpkin itself, especially if it was toasted/caramelized pumpkin.

EDIT: I guess your using just a tiny amount so my "fear" might be unfounded.

[Ibasterd]

I hear what you're saying Mashini. The Belgian Saison Yeast WLP565 says it "produces earthy, peppery, and spicy notes. Slightly sweet". This sounds like less emphasis on the bubblegum and more on the spicy. Plus I do plan on using very little actual pumpkin pie spice. I did a pumpkin beer last year and it was way too heavy with the spice, so I plan on toning that down. We shall see.

[DaYooper]

Word of warning: THIS WILL BE THE SLOWEST DRAING WORT YOU HAVE HAD THROUGH YOUR BAG. I don't recall how long it took, but my arms started to falter holding the bag over the kettle. I call my wife and she grabbed a clean bucket for me. Finished my draining there and poured it in the boil kettle. I used 2 15oz cans of Libby's pumpkin puree.

Yup, thats why I use cubed whole p'kin rather than puree. Did the puree thing once and said "the halibut."

[mashani]

I hear what you're saying Mashini. The Belgian Saison Yeast WLP565 says it "produces earthy, peppery, and spicy notes. Slightly sweet". This sounds like less emphasis on the bubblegum and more on the spicy.

If you ferment it in the 60s-mid 70s then this is true... but then it will quite possibly get stuck at 1.020 or there about and you will need to either let it sit in the fermenter for 5-6 weeks (really!) or throw in some French saison or other yeast to get it to finish. You will notice that white labs says something along these lines. That's because they don't recommend the appropriate fermentation temperature range for the yeast for god-knows-what reason. If you read the user comments you will see lots of folks talking about putting it in a 90 degree room to finish.

If you raise the temps up to around 90 during fermentation (which is what DuPont does, and this is their yeast strain) it will make bubblegum. But it will ferment out without getting stuck. If you drink some DuPont you will taste the bubblegum along with the peppery spices. DuPont selected this strain to get that flavor, and the fermentation quirks are what come with it.

If you simply want peppery and spicy notes without any trouble and without any bubblegum then just use French Saison and ferment in the 70s. It's a much easier yeast strain to keep happy.

[Ibasterd]

Thanks for the heads up. That does sound like fussy yeast. What is the process for adding more yeast to finish? Just chuck it in the fermenter? Stir/aerate?

[Ibasterd]

Actually, now that I think of it, I may give T-58 another go at this one. Jimjohnson's T-58 thread got me thinking, and it may fit the bill, as there is some rye in my recipe. I just wish I hadn't spent the money on the 565 already.

[BigPapaG]

Thanks for the heads up. That does sound like fussy yeast. What is the process for adding more yeast to finish? Just chuck it in the fermenter? Stir/aerate?

Don't stir or aerate at this point as it will oxidize the beer.

If you need to add more yeast just add it.

It'll find it's way...

[BigPapaG]

Actually, now that I think of it, I may give T-58 another go at this one. Jimjohnson's T-58 thread got me thinking, and it may fit the bill, as there is some rye in my recipe. I just wish I hadn't spent the money on the 565 already.

Make a Saison with the 565... Just a bunch of Pils or Pale extract will work.

It's also a great way to use up some left over hops...

[Ibasterd]

Well, I brewed this today. Went well. The smells were amazing. The variety of grains, the roasted pumpkin, spices and hops were fantastic. The wort was very dark. This should be complex and delicious if everything comes together. Long live the pumpkin!

[Ibasterd]

On a whim, I added 1/8 tsp vanilla extract to the fermenter about 12 hours into it.
I need to walk away from this one.