down the road when I will do an all grain dubbel... I intend to do a pseudo decoction to add nice caramelly dark flavor without using crystal malt (thanks mashani). since the decoction can easily go from yum to yuck as it is said...
rather than risking having to dump out some of my wort if it goes south...
could I do a side boil of say a pound of additional munich lme (or dme*) and a little water (around a quart or 2)? and slow boil while stirring it until it reduces and caramelizes? then dump this into the finished wort from the all grain biab just before the main boil?
I would hate to use the wort and have it burn.
*- ive been researching and a lot of ppl say that lme easily goes 'twangy' if boiled in this way. is this so?
psuedo decoction with lme?
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Re: psuedo decoction with lme?
I believe you are overthinking this; if you want decoction flavor without a decoction, add half a pound of Melanoidin Malt to your recipe and use a pound or two of dark candi sugar for those plum/raisin flavors you want in a dubbel. For my dark Belgians I usually use nothing but Pilsener and Munich (maybe a touch or Aromatic) and dark or extra dark candi sugar.
I'm curious to see what our "resident monk" mashani thinks about this...
I'm curious to see what our "resident monk" mashani thinks about this...
In Soviet Russia, beer brews you!
My brews
Re: psuedo decoction with lme?
For Belgians I use a combination of Munich and a mixture of D-90L, or D-180L candi syrup to get those flavors. Aromatic malt or Melanoidin malt will work too in smaller amounts. IE I will put Munich in a larger proportion of my grain bill then I would if I had used Aromatic or Melanoidin. You can just consider those malts to be 'amped up munich' from this perspective, as that's what they really are. I always have Munich around, and I do not fear adding Munich to just about any beer, so I just use Munich.
Now if I'm doing a wheat beer where I want those kinds of flavors, IE something like a wheat bock, I will do a boil down pseudo-decoction, because the boiled down wheat malt provides a bit of a different flavor then I get with the munich/candi syrup (it's possible that 45L-90L mix might do it, but I have not tried). I do this with either a PM of 2-row/wheat or wheat DME. I have never tried it with LME because I don't like any wheat LME I've found.
But with LME, my bet is that YMMV depending on how fresh your LME is. Old LME has already had some Maillard reaction, which in a lot of ways is like a super slow motion pseudo decoction that already started happening in the container. Which is why folks thing it tastes "off" or "twangy". When I use LME given the choice it's always really fresh bulk stuff like MoreBeer pils or MoreBeer extra light.
I can vouch for the boil down pseudo-decoction being a technique that can make incredibly tasty beer. As some others here who tried it can also say. But you have to do it carefully so as to not burn the wort.
But yeah... in this case I am with Russki, I would just use Munich and D-90/D-180L on top of a pilsner base. Add 3787/WLP530 and you have a good dubbel. You can make a beer that will remind you of Abt 12 with just those ingredients along with some noble hops, or hops like ekg/styrians.
EDIT: If you or other folks want to do it with all LME just pick up 2-3 pounds of some Munich LME which tends to be 50% pale/50% munich. Then just add pilsner LME/DME to that and the candi syrup. I'd use anywhere from 14-20% of your bill of the candi syrup. It will make good beer. I prefer to feed my Belgian the syrup during fermentation if I'm using Westmalle yeast as above.
EDIT EDIT: But if your doing it as AG just add some Munich to your grain bill, or one of the above alternatives, and then feed some D-90 and/or D-180L during fermentation.
Now if I'm doing a wheat beer where I want those kinds of flavors, IE something like a wheat bock, I will do a boil down pseudo-decoction, because the boiled down wheat malt provides a bit of a different flavor then I get with the munich/candi syrup (it's possible that 45L-90L mix might do it, but I have not tried). I do this with either a PM of 2-row/wheat or wheat DME. I have never tried it with LME because I don't like any wheat LME I've found.
But with LME, my bet is that YMMV depending on how fresh your LME is. Old LME has already had some Maillard reaction, which in a lot of ways is like a super slow motion pseudo decoction that already started happening in the container. Which is why folks thing it tastes "off" or "twangy". When I use LME given the choice it's always really fresh bulk stuff like MoreBeer pils or MoreBeer extra light.
I can vouch for the boil down pseudo-decoction being a technique that can make incredibly tasty beer. As some others here who tried it can also say. But you have to do it carefully so as to not burn the wort.
But yeah... in this case I am with Russki, I would just use Munich and D-90/D-180L on top of a pilsner base. Add 3787/WLP530 and you have a good dubbel. You can make a beer that will remind you of Abt 12 with just those ingredients along with some noble hops, or hops like ekg/styrians.
EDIT: If you or other folks want to do it with all LME just pick up 2-3 pounds of some Munich LME which tends to be 50% pale/50% munich. Then just add pilsner LME/DME to that and the candi syrup. I'd use anywhere from 14-20% of your bill of the candi syrup. It will make good beer. I prefer to feed my Belgian the syrup during fermentation if I'm using Westmalle yeast as above.
EDIT EDIT: But if your doing it as AG just add some Munich to your grain bill, or one of the above alternatives, and then feed some D-90 and/or D-180L during fermentation.