Mash vs. Steep

[alb]

OK, the title of my post immediately took me back to Mad magazine days, with Spy vs. Spy. I’m really getting old.

Anyway, here is a resource for those who want a concise summary and don’t need the whys and wherefores at the moment:

http://brewbeeranddrinkit.com/a-home-br ... lts-guide/

[RickBeer]

OH MY GOD!

I have steeped Amber Malt, Biscuit Malt, Honey Malt. I have not been hit by lightning or vanquished to hell.

[FedoraDave]

I've always used this:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Not only does it tell you whether a mash is required, but it tells you what the characteristics of the various malts are. I've printed this page out and refer to it quite frequently.

[FedoraDave]

OH MY GOD!

I have steeped Amber Malt, Biscuit Malt, Honey Malt. I have not been hit by lightning or vanquished to hell.

I've steeped Biscuit and Honey, too, but soon came to realize that I wasn't getting as much out of it as I would by mashing it with a base malt. I don't understand exactly what goes on or why, but I know it makes a difference.

[swenocha]

After taking the Chem of Beer course that a few of us went through, I actually feel like I have a better handle on this now. Specialty malts that can be steeped undergo a special heating process that causes the enzymes to convert the starches into sugars inside the hull. Because these sugars are soluble, these malts can have them extracted by steeping rather than by mashing. I believe that Honey and Biscuit have not undergone this process, and thus must be mashed to get any sugars out of them. Now, it's possible that a bit of flavor/color can come out by steeping these, but you'll not get anything in the way of ABV out of them. Mashing has to occur to cause this conversion of starch to sugar to occur. Now, there's nothing saying you can't mash these as easily as steeping them. They both have enzyme levels that would cause some conversion (I think Honey can self-convert as I think it's around 50L, while I think Biscuit is in the 25L range, which isn't quite enough to self-convert (you'd need some base malt in the mini-mash)).

[BlackDuck]

I love the color chart that goes with it too. That could come in handy if your trying to hit a certain color.

[FedoraDave]

And to add a layman's anecdotal experience to Dr. Science's analysis, when I was just steeping the Biscuit malt, I wasn't getting as much flavor as I got from mashing it.

At the time, I seem to remember someone telling me that the enzymatic conversion of the base malts is needed for the full conversion of whatever the Biscuit is bringing to the party.

[RickBeer]

Anyway, here is a resource for those who want a concise summary and don’t need the whys and wherefores at the moment

Nice try Alb, but the thread is turning into the opposite

Seriously, I know I'm mostly getting flavor and color from my steeped grains. QBrew shows my ABV for White House Honey Malt at 6.2% ABV steeping 12 oz of Amber and 8 oz of biscuit. Changing both to mash in QBrew raises ABV to 6.5%. Removing both drops it to 5.8% ABV (and the color drops from 9 to 6). So steeping almost doubles the impact to ABV.

One thing I've noticed with QBrew too - while it was always off on Mr. Beer recipes, I attributed that to Mr. Beer's exaggerated ABV. But now that I do extract recipes often from my LHBS, I usually nail their OG exactly, but I'm always lower than QBrew. So some assumption in QBrew (perhaps the LME I am picking?) is higher than what I am using. I've never tried to find out whether the bulk LME I use has the same specs as any in QBrew.

[mashani]

I would point out that if you "steep" something like Munich or Honey malt or other specialty malts with some enzymes or 2 row like grains, although you won't get full conversion like a mash, it's not necessarily true that you get "nothing" but flavor. A 30 minute steep in the right temperature range is a 30 minute mash, IE a mash with partial conversion. If temperatures vary then it's a mash that makes many different kinds of sugars, but it's still going to produce something... you will get starches too of course and some haze, but in the small amounts you are steeping usually it might not be a big deal to you. Biggest risk is that some types of beer infecting bugs like to eat the starches. But if your clean it's going to be "ok".

People in ancient times used to make beer by leaving grains in a rock bowl in some water out in the sun and the temperatures went all over the place. That obviously doesn't efficiently work the enzymes like we do today, but it still made some weak beer like substance as for some bit of time the temps ended up in the right range.

Until the 1700s there were not thermometers - people basically just figured out if their finger hurt a certain amount when they dipped it in the mash, it made better beer then if their finger felt luke warm, or if they scalded their flesh off - and then figured out how much boiling water mixed with cold water it took to make that happen easier. Even in the 1700s most folks would not have one. IE Elizabethan recipes I've seen call for nnn amount of boiling water added to their vessel of grains covered with water, not a temperature measurement. So even the wealthy households these recipes came from didn't use the things. (these are folks brewing hundreds of gallons of small beer every month to feed their family and servants).

[alb]

Thanks, mashani. I love the history lessons I get here!