The WLP001 Saga

[FedoraDave]

I had forgotten how vigorous this yeast is. I use it in a couple of recipes, which I hadn't brewed in a while, and last weekend I brewed a fiver of King Pin IPA, for which the California Ale Yeast is perfect. Here's the timeline:

Got the yeast and made a starter on Friday.
Noticed aggressive krausen in starter Saturday morning before leaving for work. Replaced foam stopper on flask with sanitized foil.
Got a call from SWMBO saying the starter was really overflowing, and what should she do? Told her to put it in the fridge. It had been about 24 hours since I'd made the starter.

Sunday morning, I decanted off the cold yeast cake and set the flask aside to rise to room temp while I brewed.
Sunday evening, a little bit of burping in the blow-off.
Monday morning, insane burping and massive yeast churning in the carboy.

I've checked it every day this week, and while it's slowed down, it's still visibly working.

This yeast is amazing.

[ScrewyBrewer]

Dave, sounds like the yeast you bought was alive and kicking, what every brewer always hopes for too. Over the years I've devised a number of methods to prevent those flask overflows from creating a mess. I sometimes use a top from one of those round plastic take out food dishes with the lip pointing up and put it between the top of the stir plate and the bottom of the flask. It's thin enough that my stir plate can still spin the stir bar without issue and it does a great job at containing any overflows.

What I did this week for my WLP400 starters instead though was to fold two paper towels in half long ways, wrap them around the bottom of the flasks and tape the ends together, sort of like a starter diaper. It may have looked funny but the paper towels did a good job in containing the overflow and I later used them to wipe the wort off the flasks before refrigerating them. The two other options are to not fill the flasks too high with wort or move up to a three liter starter which I am seriously considering doing around the holidays.

[Beer-lord]

001 is now my house yeast. I've had great luck with it for the last year or more. With a good starter, I've seen it start its work in as little as 3 hours. I try to plan ahead so I can decant as well.

[FedoraDave]

Great ideas, Vince! I'll have to remember them next time I make a yeast starter. I did fill this flask a little high, I'll admit, but I don't think it would have made much of a difference. This stuff took off like gangbusters. I made a point of checking the "Best by" date before I bought it, and it said Jan. '15, so I had confidence, and that confidence paid off in spades.

The nice thing is, my OG was a bit lower than projected, but I'm anticipating this will exceed the projected FG and still give me a superb ABV% for an IPA.

Stay tuned, beer fans.

[Beer-lord]

Dave, Fermcap can help a bit with foam overs in a yeast starter.
I use it when I'm boiling the wort for my starters on the stove in a flask and it works great though I've never used it for fermentation control. Some say it works and others say it doesn't do much.

[FedoraDave]

I'll keep it in mind, but I'd prefer not to use it if I can avoid it.

I really need to get a handle on my pre-boil volume for this, is what it comes down to. I really overfilled the flask this time, trying not to waste the wort, when I should have bitten the bullet and poured the excess down the drain. I still would have had plenty of viable yeast, and no mess to deal with.

I'm most gratified that the starter took off so well in such a relatively short time. I was worried that I was pushing it by making the starter on a Friday afternoon with the intention of pitching it around noon on Sunday. Obviously, my concerns were ungrounded.

[Beer-lord]

I went from a 2 liter flask to 3 liter and a better stir plate and haven't looked back. I would suggest to anyone starting to work with yeast starters not get any flask smaller than 2L and if possible, 3L. Heck, I'd love a 5L flask but I can't brew enough beer for that.
Quality yeast is all you need for a good starter. I routinely did the same timeline you did until the last few beers when I planned ahead and did it 5 days in advance so I could cold crash for 2 days and decant. I'd rather that than dump the whole starter in but there's nothing wrong with it.

[FedoraDave]

I have a 2L flask. I don't know if I want to go larger. I only make yeast starters for my 5-gallon beers, so I'd only be using it 1/3 of the time, and I can't really justify the expense for that, especially when it'll work out fine if I'm more careful about my measurements. And if I'm getting vigorous fermentation like this anyway, what's the diff?

[Kealia]

Timely discussion. I have a 2L starter of WLP001 going right now that I'm pitching in about an hour. Started it yesterday with 2 vials of pretty fresh yeast and just need a little growth to hit my numbers.

This is going into a 6G batch of the One Evil Pilsner that I'm fermenting in a 6.5G bucket. Me thinks a blow-off tube is going to be required.

[Beer-lord]

Do you really need 2 vials with a 2L starter? What's the projected OG and hold old is the yeast?
My calculations show a 1.065 beer needs 270 billion cells and a 2 liter starter on a stir plate should give that if the yeast is not older than 1 month.

[FedoraDave]

I wonder about that myself.

I was at the LHBS today and overheard a phone conversation between the owner and a homebrewer about liquid yeast and starters, and whatnot.

The gist I got from the owner's end of the conversation is that a single vial of liquid yeast can ferment a five gallon batch with a fair-to-middlin' ABV. It may not ferment as well, but it'll do the job. You may need more with a higher ABV beer, obviously. I was interested to hear him say that dry yeast probably has more healthy cells available per pack than a vial of liquid yeast. I just like the wide variety and specialization available from White Labs.

The nuances that come into play are things like experience, individual preference, and things like that. Even if a yeast starter isn't essential, I like to do it with my fivers, just to make sure I've got the most working for me that I can get.

Even so, I don't think it's possible to overpitch, or at least it's not a detriment to the beer.

[Beer-lord]

At the gym 3 times a week I listen to homebrew podcasts and have almost caught up with Jamil's show with John Palmer. Lots of yeast talk. Both admit its extremely hard to overpitch but say that most people do. However, it's better to overpitch than underpitch.
But they suggest a starter with liquid yeast pretty much no matter what. If you have no time, they suggest either 2 vials directly in the fermenter or dry yeast.
Back to point, I've used 1 vial in a 3L stater and save about half which I then put in 2 jars. Put the rest in the fridge for cold crashing and decant. Since I've done this and not used washed yeast, I swear my beer takes off faster, attenuates better and finished faster. Can't say they're a whole lot to brag about but I drink em.

[braukasper]

One thing about the Fermcap is be careful not use more than a drop, two at most. Fermcap may carry over to packing. I have had beers that I used it in have poor head retention. For lagers I will generally use 2 vials or smack packs for a starter in a 2L flask then step that up in a 5L flask. I base that on, how old the yeast is.

[Beer-lord]

Other than for my starters on the stove, I only used it once in an 11 gallon brew day and I used 4-5 drops. No problems at all. I've read the same thing but I think you really have to use a lot of it to affect anything. Plus, after a 60 minute boil, I'm sure a lot of it is evaporated out.

[mashani]

Even so, I don't think it's possible to overpitch, or at least it's not a detriment to the beer.

This perhaps is true with a clean lager strain or if you want a totally clean American ale. Perhaps.

Perhaps because although even the beers people think are totally clean do often have a small amount of esters that help "round out" the beer even if they are unperceivable as "fruity" as such. A big enough overpitch and they may not develop and the beer may seem to be "missing something" even though you can't figure out what it is.

Now say a wheat beer where you want Banana. An overpitch will eliminate all banana, and you will end up with one dimensional clove beer or a very tart almost sour tasting beer depending on the strain. Any wheat yeast I've ever used will not make Banana or it's other fruity esters in the right amounts if at all if you overerpitch. Same with various esters in various Belgian strains. Pitch rates and/or temperature control (generally less of it) are important to develop the yeast flavors you want with those animals.

Plus, after a 60 minute boil, I'm sure a lot of it is evaporated out.

The vegetable oil version might denature or change in structure in the boil but your probably not using that and are using Fermcap S. That stuff doesn't evaporate out. However much you add to your boil ends up in the fermenter unless it settles in the whirlpool break. Hopefully whatever ends up in the fermenter settles into the trub and doesn't end up in bottles. If it ends up in the bottles and you drink it the FDA would say this is a bad thing. In a commercial environment they would filter it out when the filter the beer before it ends up in a brite tank. Consuming enough of it is potentially bad for you. Probably not any worries if you use a reasonable amount and it settles, but if it's affecting bottle head retention, then I personally wouldn't drink that beer based on what I know about the stuff. I actually won't use it based on what I know about the stuff, I drink too much homebrew and I don't cold crash/filter...