The WLP001 Saga

[Beer-lord]

This guy used 26 drops and hasn't had any problems though I think that is way over what's needed. http://brulosophy.com/2014/10/02/fermca ... boilovers/
His take is that it has the same thing in it as Gas-X. I have read that too much can decrease residual bitterness by up to 10%.

The FDA says it should be unfiltered before drinking it and that does have me concerned. I'm still looking for Fermcap AT but it's not usually easy to find.
Here's the last thing I read a few months ago when we talked about Fermcap.
FermCap AT is a unique emulsion of an extremely effective surface active agent Dimethylpolysiloxane which prevents foam formation by reducing surface tension. FermCap AT is classified as a "Process Aid" because of its novel feature of being completely removed from the beer under normal processing conditions. It is adsorbed onto the surface of the yeast, vessel walls and filter media.
Analytical techniques accurate to 0.005 ppm cannot detect FermCap AT in finished beer.

FermCap S is a unique emulsion of an extremely effective surface active agent Dimethylpolysiloxane which prevents foam formation by reducing surface tension. It is used to control foam in kettle and during fermentation. It is completely removed from the beer after fermentation by the yeast and filtration. As a result of preserving hydrophobic beer proteins in solution it actually improves beer foam retention in the finished beer.

Bottom line for me, I'm only using this in my yeast starters except for 1 boil that I tried it on and I don't plan on doing that anymore. As soon as I can grab some of the AT, I'll buy it and use it instead.

[braukasper]

Fermcap is the only thing I could find in common with my beers that had poor head, foam retention. I also used it when I first started 5 & 10 gallon batches. With limited headspace and lots of blow-overs. I should go over my kegging procedures.

[Beer-lord]

2 other beer forums I read daily are full of threads about Fermcap and a great majority have posted no adverse affects. In fact, I've read threads that blame Whirlfoc on head retention problems. My thoughts are if you have head retention problems, it's likely something else. Some reasons for head retention problems are not having a long enough boil, to hot of a boil, mash temperatures and even scooping the hot break at the beginning of the boil may also harm head formation. I don't use it often but I've found some wheat and/or carapils helps with head retention.

[BlackDuck]

I use this stuff to control the foaming during the hot-break. It still foams, but it breaks up quick with a little stirring. I'm not sure if it would work in a starter, but it should.

http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?mai ... ts_id=2293

I like this stuff because it is Non Silicone. I usually use 8 to 12 drops in the kettle as the foam is really starting to get going, then mix with the paddle. This has not adversely affected any of the head retention in my beers. I would suggest you give this a try if you want a de-foamer with out the worry of silicone.

[Beer-lord]

Thanks for that link....gonna order some and try that soon.

[FedoraDave]

I honestly didn't expect this thread to take on the life that it has, but all this yeast discussion is great! I don't care how many tangents and hijacks occur, as long as we're getting some good information out there.

Still, since it's all about me, I thought I would add this....

Yesterday, I changed the blow-off for a regular airlock. It's still bubbling, but there's no way it's going to blow, and I wanted the blow-off for the batch I brewed today.

So I took the bottle and put it in the lager fridge, because it had overflow (i.e. yeast) in it, and I wanted it to settle, thinking I could harvest it and use it at a later date. Sort of Express Yeast Washing.

There really was quite a bit of yeast in there, and I decanted most of the water (which I'd boiled for 15 minutes and cooled prior to using), then shook it up to mix everything, and poured it into 3 White Labs vials that I'd saved, washed, sanitized. I probably could have filled a lot more vials, but I couldn't see the need; three should be plenty right now.

I've labelled them and stuck them in my fridge. It looks as though there's plenty of yeast in there. I compared it to a vial of yeast I bought yesterday, and the volumes look about the same. I may even have more yeast in my vials than White Labs provides new.

How many viable cells I have, and how well it's going to perform remains to be seen, but I use WLP001 in at least 3 recipes that I can think of, so I might as well have it on hand and save a little money in the bargain.

[Kealia]

Do you really need 2 vials with a 2L starter? What's the projected OG and hold old is the yeast?
My calculations show a 1.065 beer needs 270 billion cells and a 2 liter starter on a stir plate should give that if the yeast is not older than 1 month.

I should have been more clear, sorry. It was 2 vials in a 2L FLASK but the starter was only 1L in size. The growth I needed was minimal so a 2L starter would have given me way too many cells and I didn;t have time to decant and save some of it.

[Kealia]

So I took the bottle and put it in the lager fridge, because it had overflow (i.e. yeast) in it, and I wanted it to settle, thinking I could harvest it and use it at a later date. Sort of Express Yeast Washing.

I thought about doing this the last time I had a very active blowoff but I use StarSan in my receptacle. I think since you boiled and cooled the water initially that this seems like a pretty valid way to collect some yeast IMO.

[FedoraDave]

So I took the bottle and put it in the lager fridge, because it had overflow (i.e. yeast) in it, and I wanted it to settle, thinking I could harvest it and use it at a later date. Sort of Express Yeast Washing.

I thought about doing this the last time I had a very active blowoff but I use StarSan in my receptacle. I think since you boiled and cooled the water initially that this seems like a pretty valid way to collect some yeast IMO.

This is what I'm hoping, and also why I used boiled and cooled water. Next time I want to use 001 in a recipe, I'll use one of these vials to make a starter. If that starter doesn't take off, I'll substitute with a packet of dry ale yeast that I keep on hand for emergencies. If it does work, though, I'll know for the future, and I'll be able to harvest yeast easily this way.