Still tweaking the brown ale recipe

[FedoraDave]

This is closer, but still very far from the brown ale I envision in my mind's taste buds.

I want it sweeter, and more caramelly. I'm going to substitute 40L for the Chocolate, and see if my LHBS carries Golden Promise. If so, I'll use that instead of 2 Row. I'm also going to cut down the bitterness boil to 45 minutes.

The flavor isn't bad, and some people might think it was a really good brown ale. And I think it's a good brown ale; just not what I'm aiming for.

[RickBeer]

Dave:

I'm a big fan of brown ales and actually have several I make - a Moosedrool clone and a Bell's Best clone.

Moosedrool uses 0.5 lbs flaked oats, 1 lb 80L, 0.25 lbs chocolate, and 0.125 lbs roasted barley. Bell's uses 1lb each of 60l, special roast, and victory, and 0.1875 lbs chocolate. I think every brown has chocolate in it, at least the ones I've considered. The White House Honey Porter also has 0.1875 lbs chocolate.

Edited to include amounts.

[Inkleg]

I'll have to see what Golden Promise brings to to table as I know nothing about it. But either that or Maris Otter should help with the malty sweetness you're looking for. I've made a Northern English Brown and a English Bitter using MO with great results.

What yeast are you using?

[Inkleg]

With a quick search, looks like either GP or MO will help with what you're looking for.

[FedoraDave]

Yeah, I'm reluctant to get rid of the chocolate, and maybe I'll keep it and use 40L instead of the 60L I was using, along with the change in the base malt. Maybe do some research on other recipes I find on BrewToad. I know what I want; I just haven't found the right combination yet.

[mashani]

60L is pretty sweet, even 80L is, they are both very common in Browns. And I've never made one without a little bit of chocolate malt or roasted barley (but just a little bit).

To me, 60L is more caramel strong then 40L, where 40L is a bit sweeter. 80L or 90L if you want a bit of dark fruit. I like that a lot in Browns personally.

So it depends on what you want, but instead of switching to 40L, my personal take for more caramel would be to increase the 60L, and use the Maris Otter or Golden Promise and mash at a warmer temperature if you want it more malty/bready. They are two different things.

And then there is the yeast... (I have no clue what to say there since I don't' know the recipe, but something like London ESB or West Yorkshire yeast would make the beer turn out a good bit different then S-04 or S-05 for example and might let the flavors/malt you might be looking for stand out more on it's own).

[philm00x]

Dave, I use 10L crystal in mine, but it's all MO base. Pale chocolate (250-350L) gives the color and flavor w/o the chance of astringency that I have occasionally gotten with regular chocolate malt. The flavor comes out wonderfully nutty and chocolatey, sweet finish, but balanced.

[FedoraDave]

As far as the yeast, I've used Danstar Nottingham Ale, and, more recently, Mangrove Jack Newcastle Dark Ale. I figured both were suitable for the style.

I should have posted the recipe, so to remedy that, here's what I've used:

2.5 gallon batch

3.25 lb two-row
0.25 lb chocolate
0.5 lb biscuit
0.25 lb 60L

0.5 oz. Fuggles - 60 minutes
0.5 oz. Fuggles - 20 minutes
0.5 oz. Fuggles - 7 minutes

I mash at a higher temperature, around 158.

So I'm thinking if I exchange the two-row for either Golden Promise or Maris Otter (and bump it up to about 3.75 or 4 pounds), that will help. I might ditch the biscuit, too, and up the 60L to 0.5 pounds. And cut the bittering addition to 45 minutes.

What I'm looking to achieve is a very sweet, caramel flavor, with a hint of nutty/roastiness. I'm going to run the changes through BrewToad tonight and see how the numbers stack up. The current batch seems too bitter, and also too thin.

[mashani]

Dave, I use 10L crystal in mine, but it's all MO base. Pale chocolate (250-350L) gives the color and flavor w/o the chance of astringency that I have occasionally gotten with regular chocolate malt. The flavor comes out wonderfully nutty and chocolatey, sweet finish, but balanced.

Real British chocolate malt (instead of American Briess variety) will do wonders here too IMHO. Its darker, to me more chocolaty, and less bitter/astringent/roasty.

10L would certainly bump up the sweetness if that's what he wants.

@Fedora Dave, I think if you go 100% MO, you don't need any biscuit. More crystal of any kind would help with the mouth feel. Not using Nottingham will also help there, Nottingham ferment's out drier/less malty then most other British yeast, I use Nottingham for English (and American) pale ale and IPAs, but not for bitters/browns or porters/stouts where I want more malty vibe to be there. I highly recommend you try London ESB. It's delicious. You may only get 70-72% attenuation instead of the 75-78% you likely are getting with Notty, but in a brown or bitter or mild that's not a bad thing (Americans have a bug up their butt about attenuation that is silly when it comes to certain traditional styles of beer). Unless you want it dry. But you sound like you don't.

[FedoraDave]

Definitely taking notes, and will refer to this thread next time I plan on brewing this.

Thanks large for the suggestions, everyone!

I'll have to see if my LHBS carries British Chocolate, and I'll definitely use MO as the base malt, and maybe throw in some 10L

[BlackDuck]

Dave....your malt bill is close to what I did for a brown ale.

For a 5 gallon batch, mine was:
10 lbs 2 Row
1.25 lbs Munich Malt
10 oz. Chocolate Malt
8 oz. Crystal 20

It had a nice color, head and mouthfeel. However, mine is not real sweet either. So if your looking for sweet, and caramel I would agree on increasing the 60L as you noted. And the Maris Otter would be awesome. I've had good compliments from others that have had mine.

[Inkleg]

Yeah, MO and London ESB yeast would make a huge change alone.

[MadBrewer]

I have always liked C-40 in darker beers. It is sweeter and lets the other malts come through as more Chocolately rather than Roasty. Pale Chocolate also bridges that gap between toasty and roasty for dark malts...its really good. To sweeten it up I would suggest at least .5 lbs of Crystal 40. It seems you are a dry yeast user but I agree and also suggest something like Wyeast 1968...it would really bring out what it sounds like you are shooting for. And then theres mash temp you could mash as high as 160*. And even add some Carapils.

[MadBrewer]

Another thing that came to mind is the Lovibond of the Chocolate malt you are using. There is a wide range of Chocolate malts...they are all a little different. The lower lovibond (Pale Chocolate) is 200 and very toasty. From there you have the Chocolate malts that become more roasty. So that plays a part in the flavor. They are not all the same.

And I know you have no intrest in playing with your water, and that's fine. But a pinch of Calcium Chloride would help round out the malt flavor, make the beer fuller, it would come off sweeter and you would be able to taste the different malts. Its a nice addition for darker beers. I would say try buying a small bottle ($2-$3 at the LHBS) and you can try it for yourself. You can pour your Brown Ale in one glass and pour another glass with a pinch of the Calcium Chloride, stir gently and taste for yourself. There WILL be a significant difference.

[FedoraDave]

Okay, I've taken the suggestions herein (and again, I am grateful for all the input), and I've crunched a new recipe in BrewToad. In comparing it to the BJCP style guidelines for an American Brown Ale, it seems I'm good as far as the numbers go. The real test will be in the tasting, of course, but I think this will be a good start, and I can always tweak from there.

Again, this is for a 2.5 gallon batch.

4 lb. Maris Otter
0.25 lb. Chocolate
0.25 lb. 40L
0.25 lb. 10L

0.5 oz. Fuggles - 45 minutes
0.5 oz. Fuggles - 20 minutes
0.5 oz. Fuggles - 7 minutes

WLP005 British Ale Yeast

I chose the White Labs yeast because I know my LHBS carries White Labs, but I don't know if they carry Wyeast, and the White Labs homepage describes this yeast as good for a brown ale.

When it gets a little warmer in the basement, and I can be assured of temps in the 60-70 range, I'll give this a try. Right now, it's too cold down there, and I'm fermenting everything in my ManCave closet, which is in the low 70s. In fact, the cream ale I brewed Sunday is in primary fermentation right now, and it's around 78 degrees, which is okay for a cream ale, but not where I want a brown ale to be fermenting.

I'm eager to try this again, and I'm hoping I get the sweeter flavor and fuller mouthfeel I'm looking for.