Discussing water

[Beer-lord]

I just called my water board this morning to get an updated analysis and they sent it to me again this year. Not much has changed but they said they now only come out to test the water at your house if there is a problem like odor or bad taste. I was told that if I wanted to get an exact analysis of what comes out of my pipes to send samples to Ward Labs. They are the same group that actually do a HomeBrewers water test. I think it's $40, they send you a box with instructions then with a vial and pre-labeled return box. When they get it back from you, within 48 hours, they email you a report.
I may give this a try to see how those numbers stack up against what my water board shows. It's not something I'd do but once unless there are some major changes in our area like flooding or big hurricanes.

[Beer-lord]

I use and recomend the Hanna Checker. Its around $40 and has replaceable probes for $20. You dont need a precision meter but something decent is nice to have. For a low cost but quality and functional meter the Hanna Checker is one of them. If you are happy with your beers thats fine. A ph meter will simply point out what may or may not need tweaking and you could have even better beer. Mash ph is a very under rated subject. It seems to fall to the side when water adjustment is brought up. It has definitly helped a lot of my beers.

When I look at Amazon for Hanna Checker they list a number of versions that seem to be somewhat specific to certain minerals like Phosphorus or calcium or nitrate.They're all about the same price but I'm not sure which one would be what I need. Most of the other meters I've seen look completely different.

[MadBrewer]

This is the one i have. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0085WOIM ... SY230_QL60

Ward labs is worth the money if want to really know what you are working with. A water company may not test all the things useful to a brewer. Ward labs has a cheaper test that should cover what you need i think about half that cost. You can send them a sample in a water bottle. They have instructions on the website. You could do the return box and all that but maybe thats were the extra cost comes in. Anyway...well worth it for the long run if its something that interest you.

[Beer-lord]

Thanks. I need to think about if spending this money will make a difference in my beers. I've not sent them for contests but do know I like most of what I brew and the last few using no PH5.2 and only brewing salts seem to be pretty darn good.

[MadBrewer]

Oh and the probes are good for a year or two when properly cared for. They should never be stored dry. They need to be in a pH solution when stored. They also are not meant to used at mash temps directly in the mash. They need to be calibrated so you can trust your readings so I do that on brewday.

As far as water most of us all have some sort of decent brewing water to work with. The extremes come into play with very light pale beers or very dark beers where adjustments may be needed. The middle of the road beers like Pale Ale IPA etc usually do well with average water. They are middle level SRM and they have big bold flavors that water might not impact as much. Its just something I consider to be part of my process. One quick check and I know if I'm good to go or need some adjustment. It makes a difference and impacts several things downstream in the brewing process.

[Banjo-guy]

I would be really interested in seeing your water profiles before commenting on anything. But one thing I highly reccomend is to get a ph meter to check mash ph when adjusting your water. To me, there's no point in adjusting water if I can't check the mash ph. It's probably just a case of soft water that leads to low hop character and gypsum will help the hops pop some. But if you have a high finished beer ph (over 4.5) this can lead to dull tasting beer. Boil ph also affects hop utilization in the boil. So the ph in different steps of the process can tell you a lot. Chlorine/chloromines in the water leads to other off flavors, I never really heard of it lowering hop character.

Here is my water report. I would really appreciate some advice on how to treat my water. I've done a lot of reading about water and brewing but have been holding off on treating my water. I'm not sure where to start.


PH 6.3
Total Dissolved Solids( TDS )Est. ppm 213
Electrical Conductivity mmho/cm 0.35
Cations/ Anions me/L 2.6/2.6

ppm
----------
Sodium, NA 26

Potassium, K 28

Calcium, Ca 9

Magnesium,Mg 4

Total Hardness ,CaCo3 39

Nitrate, NO3-N 2.5 ( safe )

Sulfate SO4-S 9

Chloride, Cl 47

Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0

Bicarbonate, HCO3 33

Total Alkalinity, CaCo3 27

Total Phosphorus, P 0.72

Total Iron , Fe 0.04

[MadBrewer]

Right off the top your water will favor maltier beers. Your water is low in Calcium Magnesium and Sulfates which are what bring out the hops. Your water is higher in Sodium and Chloride which is suited for maltier beers. The LHBS was right when he said your water probably makes nice Porters and Stouts. The sodium and chloride really bring out the malt flavors and complexity. On the other hand it doesnt do anything for hop character. Besides being low in Calcium you have some nice water to work with.

For hoppy beers some Gypsum would really benefit your water. It would raise the Calcium and bring the Sulfates you need. Gypsum is Calcium Sulfate. It would depend on your recipe and water amounts to determin how much. Also using a water adjustment spreadsheet really helps. But getting at least 30-50 ppm Calcium and anywhere from 50-300 ppm Sulfate for hoppy beers is common practice. Sierra Nevada has a profile of around 75 ppm Calcium 15 ppm Mag 35 ppm Sodium 55 ppm Chloride and 110 ppm Sulfate for SNPA for a reference.

But with your brewing water so low in Alkalinity you could have very low mash ph when brewing dark beers like Porters and Stouts. The dark grains drive the mash ph down naturally and without Alkalinity in the water it could go too low. But when brewing light colored beers you shouldnt need to acidify the mash at all. So along with water adjustment, checking mash ph would be highly recomended.

[Banjo-guy]

Thanks for looking over my water profile.
My next brew is going to be a biab Stout that I am doing for the rce. I might just use extract but I've got 50#s of 2 row and would like to use it if I can mash without worrying about the ph. I don't have a meter.

Do you find that using the Bru'n Water spread sheet is a good temporary substitute for using a meter?

[mashani]

Just will mention that for the stout you could always steep the dark grains separately from the mash, and then add that to the boil. It would solve the mash PH issues without the need to adjust the water. Now if you want to adjust the water, go for it of course.

[Banjo-guy]

Just will mention that for the stout you could always steep the dark grains separately from the mash, and then add that to the boil. It would solve the mash PH issues without the need to adjust the water. Now if you want to adjust the water, go for it of course.

That's something I hadn't considered. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll brew it that way.

[MadBrewer]

+1 you can always steep the dark grains seperate from the mash for dark beers.

Bru'n water is an excellent program. But it takes a while to get a feel for it. Its like the Catillac of water programs when all you might need is a compact economy car to get you to work and back. So EZ water calculator is real nice to start with. But if you are already using Bru'n water go for it...you can trust the ph estimation if you input your information fully and correctly. You can also trust Ez Water i use it as well as Bru'n water. Just keep in mind they both estimate a ROOM temp ph sample and that will be .3 points higher than the mash. So if you want 5.2 in the mash shoot for the estimation to read 5.5 in the water programs.