Betterbeerkits.com AG brew

[Beer-lord]

Apologies for a long post but........here goes.
I confess I'm not sure exactly how kitlabs is related to betterbeerkits other than the owner, Ryan but I'm assuming kitlabs is the continuing evolution of betterbeerkits.
So, full disclosure.....I donated to the kitlabs kickstarter and am thinking about putting some of my recipes on the program in the future. But for now, after speaking to Leigh about finding out more about this, I ordered a kit.
And, I will be posting info here but trying to keep it simple and short. I feel that I should start with a few of my thoughts. Many of you know I buy everything in bulk and though I'm not cheap, I don't spend money I don't need to. So, spending $40 on a 5 gallon kit when I normally brew 1.060 plus beers in 6 gallons for nearly half that cost, is not normal for me. But.......many don't have space, don't brew often enough or just don't have time to keep up with brewing and that's when kits area sweet thing.

I placed my order at betterbeerkits.com and specifically chose a lighter beer so that I can better tell if there are any off flavors possibly due to old or stale items. I expected my order to ship quickly but there were a few challenges, namely, that Ryan's kitlab kickstarter program was just 2 days away and he was very busy. I emailed him and he was extremely prompt in replying to each and every email. I told him I wanted to brew the weekend of April 11 and he got the kit to me today in time to do so. The average user likely wouldn't ask these questions but as a past buyer of many kits online, I know quick turn around is key. Ryan did step up and keep me updated.

I ordered the Chico Pale Ale which I assume is similar to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Below is a picture of what I got in the kit. I plan on brewing this as close as possible to the instructions (though via BIAB) and expect this to be a 15-18 day brew to keg timetable.

The instructions are easy-peasy and seem to be mostly done for newbies (well done). I've read some comments about these kits and I have to agree with some of them regarding not knowing what you have to work with. Weighing my grains, it looks to be 11 lbs of grain and 3 or so ounces of hops (leaf, not hops....been a long while since I've used these exclusively). This is not a problem for most people but for me, for water treatments, I'd like to know what grains I have. I am pretty sure it's likely 10 lbs 2 row and 1 lb crystal 40(ish). And, based on my recipe for Sierra Nevada, it might be Magnum, Perle and Cascade hops.

While I likely wouldn't be the market for kits, I can already see why this might be a better idea for those who want to keep things simple and straightforward. I'll brew this on Sunday and keep my posts simple and informative as possible until I'm drinking it.
Feel free to ask me questions and maybe Ryan will even pop in to discuss things as well.

[Dawg LB Steve]

Long, were talking long ??? Just Busting chops!

[philm00x]

I like how clearly labeled and numbered everything is. Can't wait to hear how it tastes!

[BlackDuck]

I would agree on the packaging, very nicely done.

[jimjohson]

It sure looks like they tried to make it a no brainer.

[mashani]

Although I agree with the comments above about packaging...

$40 you say?

I don't usually bitch about price, but that's because I'm willing to pay a premium for convenience, it's why I will do extract brewing to save time as long as I know I'm getting good quality extract, it's why even when I do AG I don't buy in bulk.

But packaging or not, why would I spend $40 on an AG kit like that when I can put that same stuff together or even buy a kit for under $30 using extract/steeping grains (and spend about 2 hours less time brewing), or < $25 using a 10# bag of grain at my favorite online store if I wanted to spend the extra 2 hours brewing? And yes those prices are pretty accurate, I just looked. And I'd get free shipping by ordering some extra stuff for another brew.

Its not hard to look up a SNPA clone recipe on line and toss in your hops on the right schedule. $15 extra is a lot of money to simply get 1# of crystal mixed in with the 10# of 2-row, and unnamed bags of hops instead of named bags of hops. "Throw bag #1 in @60" is not harder then "Throw half the package of magnum in @60" to understand? (and I'd have more magnum to use in another brew!).

I mean $40 is getting pretty close to Mr. Beer levels of price. There is an AG kit with 16.5# of grains and 12 ounces of hops I can get from said site (which includes good directions, grains are mixed together, hops are pre-measured) for < $40 even after adding in the yeast. Even the most outrageous kits like Pliney are only $10 more then that.

So what am I missing?

[Beer-lord]

I think you're not missing much. I accepted the price when I ordered it, knowing full well what I was paying for. I could have purchased another kit with more grains and hops for the same $40 but I figured I'd go simple to verify the quality of grains and hops thinking a lighter, simpler brew would show any problems easier. If the quality is good, and I have no reason to doubt otherwise, then there is a market for this product. Might not be the same market that some of us purchase from but in our homebrew world, there is a place for everyone.
That said, this is something that I wouldn't purchase on a regular basis because of my inventory of hops, yeast and grains. But there are obviously those that do and will. It seems kickstarter for kitlabs is at least getting an interest but it remains to be seen if it will meet its goal. Still, I have to believe the more options we have as homebrewers, the better off we are.

[mashani]

Still, I have to believe the more options we have as homebrewers, the better off we are.

I can't disagree with that.

Interesting weird factoid... at betterbeerkits.com, there seems to be no price difference between full extract, extract + steep, and AG. Which makes no sense to me. AG should always cost less. And something like a wheat beer and an IPA are the same price too. Which also makes no sense. It's all just one (high) price fits all. I don't know if that's a "bug" or a "feature".

[jimjohson]

Making a SN clone is one thing...what about copying an original recipe of a pre prohibition brew??? not quite so easy, huh?

[mashani]

I would not argue that such a kit could be worth a price premium Jim.

But even esoteric stuff like that you can sometimes find good information on the Intrawebs. IE:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

can tell you everything you need to know to brew pre ww1, interlude, ww2, and post ww2 British beers for example, when combined with this:

https://pdtnc.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/ ... gus-co-uk/

[jimjohson]

It would depend on the kit. I mean, there is no way I'm paying $40 for say an American Wheat recipe, that'd be like $15 more than it cost me at my LHBS. The first link seems to be how to set up a brewery to the way it was done in the past. (LOL my brewery would probably be a pre-bronze age set up) The second seems to be a list of (British)malts and adjuncts. Perhaps I just lack the imagination, but I fail to see how the first actually helps you to "clone" a pre-prohibition brew.

[mashani]

Jim, search the Barklay Perkins site for recipes. (there is a search box). Or browse some more past the front page. It's a blog, it goes way back in time.

There are hundreds of recipes obtained from many actual British breweries and converted to homebrew scale. They not only let you clone various historical British beers, but it also lets you see how many of those same beers evolved over time, from pre-ww1, ww1, to the intermission, ww2, to post war based on ingredients available. You will learn that the Brits started to use lots of American 6-row in their beers because of less ability to get continental malts. You will learn all about sugar adjuncts used in historical and traditional British beers. You will learn all sorts of things, and just how whacked some of those beers got at times.

The second link helps you understand what some of the brewing sugars/adjuncts mentioned in the recipes are so you can get them/make them/or find an appropriate substitute. Because they use terminology that would be unfamiliar to many, especially Americans.

[jimjohson]

I'll check that out later right now I'm brewing. The pot should be coming to a boil, as soon as I'm NOT paying attention.

[Beer-lord]

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I completed the brew today and so far so good but there are a number of concerns I have. I know that this kit is likely for the novice brewer as the instructions were extremely simple. It seems the quality of ingredients are as good or better than what I would get with the major online homebrew retailers. I asked for my grains to be whole but they were crushed and Ryan told me they were a bit course so I left them alone.

Not knowing for sure what I had to work with I weighed the grains and they came out to just a tad bit more than 11 lbs. Based on what I know about SN Pale Ale, this appeared to be close. I guestimated on my BIAB water volume using the 11 lbs of grain as the target. Not knowing what to expect for an OG I ended up with 1.053 which is pretty much what SN Pale Ale should be but I did not get 5 gallons out of it....only got 4.25 or maybe a tad under 4.5 gallons. I'm so used to working with 6 gallon brews that some of this might be my fault.

The hops were packed well and smelled fresh and I followed the recipe exactly as noted except that I used 3 hop bags instead of opening the same bag and adding the 2nd and 3rd hop addition. There are no dry hop additions in this recipe so after the beer was finished boiling, I left the hops flame out hops in for 20 minutes as instructed then chilled to 65 and aerated and added the packed of Mangrove Jack ale yeast that was included. It's not in the freezer at 65 waiting to begin its journey. I expect to keg this in 2 weeks since it's a low OG beer and needs no dry hopping.

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[BlackDuck]

I find it interesting that you asked for uncrushed grain and he sent you coarse crushed grain. Sounds like he didn't fill the order correctly. Since you came up short on your volume, did the instructions included water volumes? Also, did the instructions give you a projected OG that you should have been shooting for?