Ward Lab water test

[Beer-lord]

Yes, I asked and was told that had everything (and a bit more) than I would need.
It did vary a bit from the last info I had from my water board but that was many months old.

[BlackDuck]

Thanks...I think I'm going to order one today.

[MadBrewer]

So, it turns out they had my water all along but the paper where my email address was was torn. A few emails to them and they got me my results.
I'm surprised that my PH was as high as it was since my local board showed it a bit lower and I assume the time of the year makes some big differences too.

For anyone interested, here's what they tell me about my water so feel free to tell me what you think. I will use these numbers in my next few batches and make adjustments to see how things work out. And, I would not hesitate to recommend this company as each and every email I sent was replied to promptly though they did have a problem letting me know due to teh torn email page.


pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 215
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.36
Cations / Anions, me/L 3.3 / 3.2

ppm

Sodium, Na 20
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 29
Magnesium, Mg 11
Total Hardness, CaCO3 118
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.9 (SAFE) Sulfate, SO4-S 13
Chloride, Cl 27
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 94
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 78
Total Phosphorus, P 0.09
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

As is, you have some pretty decent brewing water. With 29ppm Calcium that is on the lower end. Magnesium is not really a concern so 11ppm of that is fine. 20ppm Sodium and 27ppm Chloride together usually help bring out the malt character and round out the flavor especially in darker beers. Your Alkalinity, Hardness and Bicarbonate are at average levels. The Alkalinity and Bicarbonate could easily be treated with Acid in the mash to neutralize the Alkalinity to keep mash ph in check when brewing lighter beers.

As far as Sulfate, to convert from So4-s to So4 you need to multiply by 3 so your true Sulfate level is actually 39ppm. So with that said, even with your decent Sodium and Chloride numbers, your Sulfate level still wins out and probably makes for a more balanced beer, maybe even leaning towards bringing out the hops.

I'm curious to what kind of beers you typically brew, or what styles you feel seem to come out best using this water? Do you do any adjustments now? Do you check mash ph? Those answers will help decide what kind of adjustments to make.

[Beer-lord]

Thanks for the info. Ward did tell me to multiply the So4 by 3 which I have put into my water calculations.
I feel I've come a good way regarding my water. These numbers are not far off from what my local water board gave me last year and I have done 7 brews using water salts only and I have definitely noticed a difference. The things I've noticed most were the nose and a kind of cleaner tasting beer. Meaning, I feel I can almost taste the different ingredients.
I brew mostly IPA's and Pale Ale's. I do some dark beers, black IPA's and stouts and plan on some Saison's this summer.

I was using PH stabilizer for years until I switched to water salts using an online water adjustment calculator. I've not bought a PH meter because I don't think the expense of a good one will help me all that much though I would like one.

I'm curious, what do you do that you know so much about water treatments? I've done alot of reading on this lately and read many posts in many forums and you are both very knowledgeable and easy to understand where others go right over my head. For those that fear working with water I say, don't let the numbers and works like Magnesium, Calcium, etc. scare you.......getting the info from your local water authorities or paying like it did will definitely help you and you'd be surprised how your LHBS can help if you just ask. I just gave them my numbers, they sold me a few, very inexpensive things and using a free calculator, I've noticed a worthwhile difference.

[MadBrewer]

Beer-Lord I am an electrical/mechanical maintenance tech on heavy duty Steel Mill Cranes so there is no connection there. Brewing water has always been something that interested me most with my brewing. So I have done a lot of my own reading and a lot of trying things out myself. I have gone full circle with my brewing water from trying many adjustments to building my own water profiles with RO and back to just brewing with my filtered tap water. When I started checking and adjusting mash ph is when I had my best impact on my beers. My water is similar to yours with less Sulfate and less Sodium and Chloride with a touch more Calcium. My best beers seem to be Brown Ales and Porters where no adjustment is needed. When I brew lighter beers I need to acidify the mash to keep the ph in check. For super dark beers on occasion I might need a touch of Baking Soda to increase alkalinity so my mash ph doesnt fall too low.

I guess I just try to simplify the subject and talk about it as I understand it. As long as you are getting beers you enjoy out of what you are doing thats all that counts. I also agree that many others should give it a try and its not as complicated as it seems. It can really help you make better beer.

[BlackDuck]

I got my Ward Labs test results today. Not sure exactly what all of this means, so I hope MadBrewer can chime in. Here's what I'm working with:

pH 8.1
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 684
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.14
Cations / Anions, me/L 12.0 / 12.3

ppm

Sodium, Na 185
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 49
Magnesium, Mg 17
Total Hardness, CaCO3 193
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 59
Chloride, Cl 46
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 445
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 369
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

[Beer-lord]

Yep, he's been a huge help but I use a calculator and plug in my numbers as well as what I'm brewing and so far, I've been extremely pleased and really think it's made my beer better and I think my friends agree. It's not been a huge difference but there has been a difference.
Here's a few calculators you can try:
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files

I'm amazed at just how high a PH your water is as well as mine. I would have thought mine to be much lower.

[BlackDuck]

Thanks for the calculators, I'll play with those. Not only is the pH a touch high, but look at the total hardness. No wonder why my water is damn near crunchy!!!

[Beer-lord]

How's your urine?
I thought you had a filter of some sort for drinking and brewing.
If you feel like getting a headache, you can read this
I have it bookmarked and have looked back at it from time to time but have decided to just not worry too much about whether or not I understand it as long as the calculators are there for me.
I've not use the ph stabilizer in my last 7 brews and have only better beer to show for it. If I were not using water salts, I would use the stabilizer but since the salts are so cheap and easy with the calculator, it's not something I can see me using again unless I run out of salts.

[MadBrewer]

BlackDuck glad to see you had your water tested. With your TDS level the Alkalinity, the Bicarbonate, Sodium and Hardness levels make me wonder if your brewing water is from a well? Or secondly if you use a water softener?

[BlackDuck]

Nope to both questions. It's city water. And I called the department today to verify the numbers. Most were very close to his last test reading which was yesterday. The only one that was off a little bit was total harndess. He told me that it usually ranges from 150 to 175. So even 175 isn't too far off of 193.

[MadBrewer]

That level of Alkalinity and Bicarbonate will seriously hinder the production of lighter beers. Are you brewing All Grain? Do you check mash ph? That high of Alkalinity will keep the mash ph high or make it very high which will effect the beer. The really high sodium level paired with your Chloride level would make for very rounded malt forward beers but you do have a decent level of Sulfate so they might balance out somewhat.

My next questions would be what type of brewing you do what kind of beers you brew and how happy are with those beers? Brewing light color beers with that water could extract tannins and hurt the beer flavor and color. Brewing hoppy beers with that water you might feel like they arent hoppy enough or the beer has a harsh bitterness rather than a clean hop character. My main focus would be treating the water to nuetralize the Alkalinity in your water for proper ph in the mash. As well as treating your sparge water. The sodium, chloride, sulfate levels are all flavor factors. You do have a decent Calcium level which helps center the mash ph and conversion and yeast health and promotes finished beer stability and clarity.

[Beer-lord]

So what can be done to water to bring the sodium levels down? He sent me his numbers in EZ Water and nothing I (we) did as additions would bring the sodium out of the red levels.
Chris, might be worth it to try a batch or two of a beer you've done a few times with some bottled water and see if you can tell the difference enough for your tastes. If so, might be worth it to look into a filter system.

[BlackDuck]

First off...thanks so much for taking the time to help with this. I brew all grain and most of them are pale ales and IPA's. So far, I'm pretty happy with what I am brewing, but I can see some of your points in my beers. For example, I think I do get somewhat of a harsh bitterness when I do a full blown IPA.

Every now and then I throw in a lighter beer for good measure. In fact, the next one up is the RCE with JimJohson, which is a cream ale. So I am playing with the Bru'n Water calculator that Beerlord posted. According to that calculator, if I add 3 ounces of acid malt and 1.50 mL/gal (or 4.9 mL) lactic acid to the mash, it brings down the original mash pH of 6.5 to 5.7, which is in the acceptable range.

Good question on the sodium levels. I can't find any info on how to decrease that, but I have to wonder if adjusting some of the other data will make it more balanced????

[MadBrewer]

No problem Im happy to help. I just like to pass on things I have learned or that has helped me. The sodium isnt really a major problem but one way to cut down any minerals in your water is by dillution with RO or Distilled water. Lactic acid in the mash is the easiest way to bring that mash ph in check. If you are usung Bru'n Water for ph estimation I forget if that spreadsheet gives mash ph of a cooled sample which is .3 points higher than the true mash ph at mash temp or if it estimates actual mash ph. Just something to double check.