Pilsner vs. 2 row

[Beer-lord]

OK, I know Pilsner malt IS 2-row but why is it more expensive? I know if I only need 12 lbs or so for a beer, it's not that much more but for the 1L or so lighter kilned, can most people even tell if you used Pilsner vs the traditional base 2 row? I'm not sure I could. And if I could, it likely wouldn't be noticeable. I can understand that if you use specialty malts, the pilsner will let them shine a bit more but when making most lagers using 90% base malt, can you really tell the difference?
So now I'm going to have to brew something to see if I can.

[BlackDuck]

Quite a while ago I used Pilsner in an IPA instead of regular old 2 row. I could tell the difference. It seemed lighter, clearer and the flavor was more crisp. Why is it more expensive, not sure about that.

[gwcr]

One other thing to keep in mind about the lighter kilned Pilsner malts is that they have more DMS precursers (SMM) as opposed to a darker kilned malt. That means you need to boil longer (typically a 90 minute boil instead of 60 minutes) to ensure you drive off the DMS. Unless you are going for that cooked/creamed corn aroma which you may want in small quantities in some lagers...

[Beer-lord]

My LHBS and many online outlets charge up to .50 a pound more. Even in 50lb sacks it can run about $25 more. That's why I was asking.
I'm pretty sure that a few years ago I did a lager with nothing but standard 2 row and some vienna and I couldn't tell the difference. It was as 'pilsnery' as many of the store bought pilsners I've had.
You'd think that with all the pilsner malt sold in the US to breweries, it would be the same price. And the difference between a standard pils malt at 1L vs the standard 2 row at 1.8L doesn't seem too very much but I guess my tastes are ruined by hoppy beers.

[mashani]

Pilsner malt vs. 2 row becomes much more noticeable in very lightly hopped beers that have no other grains. IE if I made certain types of pale Belgians with 2-row instead of Pilsner, I would notice the difference. Once you toss something else into the mix (Vienna, Munich, some other malty-malt), the difference might not be as noticeable.

Also I would mention that American Pilsner and European Pilsner (German/Belgian) are not quite the same, the American stuff seems to be more highly modified, so you can mash it in 60 minutes, but the Belgian stuff I get when I mash Pilsner (rarely, I would normally rather just buy some MoreBeer pils extract), I have to mash 75-90 minutes to get full conversion, especially at lower temperatures. So for me that means 90 mash + 90 boil, so a bag of MoreBeer pils saves me 2 hours. For ME that cost difference is worth it quite often as I just don't have those 2-hours, so I am operating on a different level then worrying about whether the grain costs a little bit more per pound. So when I do have the time, I don't mind spending the extra money.

As far as why it costs more, I think it's just harder to get right. Has to be very carefully kilned.

[philm00x]

I particularly love to use Belgian Pilsner malt because it has a more bready, malty flavor to me than the German variety. Honestly, I think that character is more detectable in an ale versus a lager, likely because of the difference in fermentation and storage temperatures, and a little bit owed to the different yeasts used. Like mashani mentioned, I will mash for 75-90 minutes with it and then boil for 90 minutes to ensure boiling off DMS precursors.

[mashani]

I particularly love to use Belgian Pilsner malt because it has a more bready, malty flavor to me than the German variety.

Yep, that's why I also like to use Belgian Pilsner when I actually have the time to spend. If I'm going to spend the time, I want to use what I like best.

EDIT: FYI - since you like that, I think you would probably like Schill Kolsch Malt too. It has the bits of bready biscuit thing going on too, which separates it from normal German Pils. I like it a lot, even if it's a tad too dark to make an authentically pale Kolsch.

[derekscott85]

I'd only consider the longer boil necessary in beers where your Pilsner percentage is greater than 80% like a Tripel. The DMS thing is overplayed in my opinion and given that a 90 minutes boil only decreases your potential DMS by a small percentage, I'd say it's only necessary if you plan to use a high amount of Pilsner in an ale.


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[Whamolagan]

I like the crispness pilsner brings. I have not noticed any difference in the longer boil vs 60 min boil

[Beer Warrior]

My guess to answer is the amount planted is different so,it creates a supply demand issue. Just a shot in the dark.

[HerbMeowing]

... the lighter kilned Pilsner malts ... have more DMS precursers (SMM) as opposed to a darker kilned malt. That means you need to boil longer (typically a 90 minute boil instead of 60 minutes) to ensure you drive off the DMS.

That's the CW; however ... consider the SRM of ordinary "Brewer's malt" is 1.8 yet there's no caution about boiling _it_ for 90 minutes.

Not one to chance spoiling a batch and blowing a hole in the pipeline ... so I get in line and boil pilsner malt for 90'.
I like Weyermann pils for its low protein and high yield.

[mashani]

Has anyone here ever actually gotten DMS?

I have not no matter how hard I've tried. (and believe me I've done all sorts of things you aren't supposed to do because of DMS, and it's never happened to me).

That said, I do tend to long boil my pils when I use it, which is why I tend to use MoreBeer pils extract more often then using Pils... but maybe I should just be stupid with Pils too and see what happens.

[Beer Warrior]

I totally spaced and should have posted that Pilsen malt is derived from 2-row. So it has to be treated more than 2-row, hence the price increase.

[mashani]

Lots of stuff is derived from 2-row. And the funny thing is that sometimes the same stuff is derived from 6-row.

For example, German Munich Malt tends to be made from 2-row, but some types of American Munich are actually made from 6-row.

In most cases it's more a matter of malting/kilning process then grain type.

Exceptions of course being heirloom grains with unique flavor of their own like Maris Otter, etc.

Even then the same malt IE Maris Otter can be different depending on how it was malted. IE Floor Malted Maris Otter has a richer flavor then modern malted variety using the same grain. IE Glen Eagle vs. regular Crisp. Same grain, different malting process.