Reassure My Lager...

[MadBrewer]

I brewed an Oktoberfest back Aug 8th. Brew day went well, cooled, oxygenated, pitched healty yeast. Fermented at 50-52* for just over 2 weeks. Bumped up the temp for a D-rest to 65*. Sampled the beer after that point and it tasted pretty good. Went ahead with a cold crash for a few days. Today I racked it to a keg to let it continue lagering and start carbonating.

I tried the beer again from the hydro sample. The flavor and aroma was not what I expected. It has spent a total of just over 3 weeks on the yeast. From the aroma and flavor my first impression was maybe autolysis. I have only tasted that once before and this wasn't nearly that bad. But there was an off flavor and aroma I couldn't put my finger on. I guess I would say slightly sulfur like, but not that rotten egg smell. Flavor had a little bit of the same and almost a slight tartness. As the hydro sample warmed, that flavor mellowed or even went away. The aroma still wasn't the malty, lager like aroma I was thinking it would be. FG was right around where it should be for the grain bill, mash temp and yeast. It was 1.012.

I'm guessing and hoping the beer just needs some lager time. It's kegged and sitting at 35* Co2 regulator is set at 12 psi. I do not brew many lagers...hundreds of Ales yes but maybe 3-4 actual lagers in all my years of brewing. So this is a whole other animal for me, I feel out of my element. I'll let it lager and start to carbonate. I'll sample after a couple weeks and see what we have then.

[The_Professor]

Some lager yeasts can be a bit "sulfury" while fermenting. Maybe that's all it is?

[Kealia]

3 weeks on the yeast at lager temps? I'm going to say "no way it's autolysis". From all the reading and listening to podcasts that I've done it's *almost* impossible to get in a homebrew these days.

I'm going to go with "let it ride". One thing that I've heard a number of times over the years from guys like Jamil is that drastic and quick temp changes can stress yeast and cause them to expel off flavors. So in this case, theoritically, you could have:
- Fermented correctly and created some diacytel as lagers will do
- Raised the temp and had the yeast clean up providing the yummy sample you tried
- Cold crashed quickly and caused the yeast to expel some of that diacytel

I'm willing to bet that in a couple of weeks you won't taste it anymore as the yeast (re)clean up those off flavors.
Or maybe your hydromoter was dirty?

In all seriousness, I have heard it recommended as a Best Practice to drop temps slowly when cold crashing to avoid this. I'm not saying this is what it is, just putting it out there as a possibility.

But again, I'm betting time will make it right again.

[BigPapaG]

I also think you're gonna be ok...

Let it lager cold for several weeks or more, then try it again...

You will prolly find it to be better... Let it go longer and it might be better still.

I have had American, German and Bohemian Lagers that were iffy in the first month or two but great in a few more months time.

Oh, and we have a little rule around here...

Don't dump the beer until you have exhausted all options!

Then, before you dump it, send it to me!

[mashani]

I would not stress about sulfur either. Lots of lager yeasts (and Kolsch yeasts, and others) produce it. It always goes away with conditioning for me.

I've left beers on the yeast cake for 8 weeks without autolysis flavors being produced. Lots of people go 3 weeks on the cake. So I'm sure it's not that.

And BigG is right about dumping. Do not go there. Or distribute it to the borg collective if you must. But no dumping.

[MadBrewer]

Thanks guys. Well, certainly no plans to dump the batch. My gut feeling is it just needs more time as well. I'm not sure what to describe the aroma and flavor as. The off aroma is stronger than the off flavor. I would best describe it as a general roughness, something like sulfury/slight rubber which is why I first thought autolysis, but like mentioned 3 weeks is not long enough for that to happen.

I think the thing that makes most sense or may be most relevent here is the cold crash that may have stressed the yeast as it seemed ok up until then. But I didnt' taste Diacytel, as far as I know that is a slick, buttery flavor. Everything I have heard of lagers is sometimes it just takes more for those bi products to off gas from the beer.

Looking forward to trying it again in a couple weeks. I had high hopes for this one.

[Pudge]

I'm with Kealia. My guess would be the temp swings. I used to be a big fan of cold crashing mainly because I could. Uncontrolled fermentation will produce off flavors due to higher than intended temps and temp swings. Controlled temp swings could produce some of those same off flavors due to yeast stress, right?

It should be fine over time. You brew great beers, Kenny.

I've got a Munich Helles planned.... Believe it!?!? I'll ferment about 48-50 for a couple of weeks and let it creep up to mid-upper 50s after that for a few days. Then slowly bring it back to kegerator temp (low 40s) over a few more days and keg it up. No gas for another week or so. I don't know if that is to let the remaining yeast do a little something-something or just to keep me from drinking it too soon.

[FedoraDave]

Lagers behave differently than ales, and you need to respect that. They like to take their time, and from what you've told us, I'm guessing that time will allow for correction of this minor glitch.

I'm planning on kegging my own Oktoberfest today, in fact. I haven't taken an FG reading or tasted a sample, but on the advice of my LHBS guy, I've been lagering it since late April, dropping the temperature about five degrees every week or so. As Kealia pointed out, gradual temperature changes are recommended for this. I went from ~54 degrees down to 32 degrees in small increments, and it's been at 32 for about a month and a half.

I'm not worried about it sitting on the yeast cake that long (although I did rack to a secondary before starting the lagering process), and I'm anticipating a very mellow, malty lager. I'll be charging it at around 10/11 psi for a good month before I tap into it, too. I don't do many lagers, either, mainly because they do take an awfully long time, and I like to keep the pipeline flowing. But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to give it the time it needs.

[Pudge]

I admire your patience. I wish I had some of that.

A low gravity, simple grain bill lager (Muncih Helles)... I'm into in about 8 weeks or so.
A higher gravity, complex grain bill (traditional Bock)... 3 months.

[FedoraDave]

The thing is, I don't really have all that much patience. Fortunately, I have a lager fridge, and I racked to a secondary, so I could still brew ales while I was waiting. I just figured I'd put that much time into it, since it didn't really cost me anything in terms of drinkable beer. I kegged it this morning, and I won't tap it until October, and by then I should have all three kegs filled, with the two taps drawing. That was always my aim -- to have the two taps operating continuously, with a third keg charged and ready to go, so when one keg ran dry, I could just switch the line with no lapse in service and keep rotating through.

[Kealia]

I don't do too many lagers either. A steam beer here and there and my IPL which I've brewed 3 times now is about it. They do take up space and time so I limit them, too.

[FedoraDave]

If I'm in the mood to make a lager, I'll sometimes make it as a 2.5 gallon batch. I could even do it in one of my surplus LBKs. I think I still have at least one floating around somewhere....

[mashani]

I only do a couple of true lagers a year. Everything else "lagerish" is a steam beer or Kolsch.

[FedoraDave]

Did you just say you make steam beer? Did you?!

[mashani]

Yes, I make one or two steam beers every year. Also at least one dampfbier which is kind of a German steam beer with wheat yeast.

FWIW: If you ever wondered what to do with the Amber DME someone gave you, steam beer is something you can make with it straight up and have turn out quite tasty.