Can a keg just be jacked up?

[jon326]

So this has been an ongoing problem, with numerous threads on MBF/HBT. I cannot, for the life of me, get a good pour on my kegerator. Like, talking four, five, six pours later, multiple batches. So here what Ive tried:
EVERY possible combination of line (literally every combination) - currently running balanced line formula from BeerSmith (better but still bad)
New hardware;
new perlick faucet/attachments, tried differant regulators (good TapRite and Stock regulator)
aside from dip tube, everything was replaced on my cornie keg and lines
temperature controlled with a digital JC (tested to make sure temp was correct)
Several batches - Dunkelweizen @ 3.8 volumes, Pales @2.2-2.8, even some EisBock love (what i didnt bottle) @2.3

Still cannot get a decent pour - my question is, do you think the actual keg can be an issue? There's no LHBS here, and as a last ditch at even using this damn kegerator (justifying wasted beer, having to wait for it to settle, electric cost vs just bottling) would it behoove me to just outright when I move to texas to just buy a new cornie keg? that's literally the only thing left I havnt replaced.

[MadBrewer]

Just to be clear what temp is your kegerator at. Temperature and pressure create different volumes of co2. For example most of the time I run my setup near 40* with 12 psi for about 2.5 v of co2.

Use 3/16 beer line since its a short run. 5 ft should be a good start. Sounds like you are having foaming issues? Then you need to add resistance to your system via more line. How much do you beer line do you have running and what diameter?
Something you can try is 5 ft of 3/16 beer line on a picnic tap and see how that does to rule out your keg which I doubt is the culprit. Warm beer lines and tap on top of a tower can cause foaming issues. But again what temperature is your kegerator how much beer line do you run and what diameter...that would tell us a lot.

[RickBeer]

[BigPapaG]

image.jpg (14.63 KiB) Viewed 1327 times

Or just jacked...

[BlackDuck]

aside from dip tube, everything was replaced on my cornie keg

Maybe replace the dip tubes. Just a long shot here.....I'm sure you've cleaned them to spotless, but I wonder if they are slightly pitted on the inside, giving the beer ample nucleation points that would form a lot of foam.

Or could the dip tube be tight to the bottom of the keg which may not allow a good smooth flow up the tube and out the tap.

Like I said...long shots, but just a couple things that popped into my head.

[Inkleg]

I'm with MadBrewer on this. I would assume you are getting foamy pours. What temperature are your pours? 3/16 line? How long? Tower that is chilled? Are you opening the tap all the way when pouring? Is it just one keg? More information will help us.

I run 5-6 feet with picnic taps on all my kegs at 12psi and 38*. Try what MB suggested with the picnic tap as a place to start.

[Whamolagan]

Ok, I just got done reading this:

http://www.draughtquality.org/wp-conten ... _Final.pdf

Temp has everything to do. First off a few questions:

1. what temp is the kegerator?

2. What is the line size and length?

3. Are you force carbing?

4. What is the temperature of the actual tap faucet? This is very important. 4 degrees temp difference between the beer and the faucet will make foam instantly. What I think is happening is that as you are pouring the faucet is cooling down, that is why 5-6 pours you start to get less foam.

I am with kenny on this about resistance. That pdf link I put up cleared up a lot of questions I had. It is a bit technical, but if I can do it, anyone can

[jon326]

Ok sorry guys went out of town: here is what I did try for my pale (this was on tasty's calcs)
Fridge @ 40F
Desired volumes of CO2: 2.5
CO2 pressure required for 2.5 volumes: 12 PSI
Pressure drop per foot of hose: 1PSI
Desired pressure at dispensing: 1PSI
Assume vertical height from keg to tap: 1 foot
Hose length required: about 9 feet

this not working well, this is what I did for my second batch (dunkelweiss), based off of http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/ke ... raft-beer/, which was highly rec'd to me:
3/16" hose, R = 3 and Height = 2', with a needed pressure of 21PSI. So I dialed everything in as: L = (21 - 1 - 2/2)) / 3, or L = 19/3, or 6.33' of hose. This was @ 40 degrees, with final vol/co2 of 3.3PSI

Edit: I also kept a circulation fan inside the kegerator to get adequate airflow and was able to correctly measure stable temp of kegerator both towards the top and bottom of kegerator.

[MadBrewer]

So what is your issue? Is it foaming? Over carbonation? Under carbonation? You are only indicating that what you have done is not working well but that doesn't help us help you.

The simple way to look at it is whatever psi you are running you basically want to counter balance that with resistance in your system down to near zero or around 1-2 psi for a good steady, balanced pour.

So keep these things in mind:

A standard faucet has a resistance of 2 psi.
A standard shank has a resistance of 1 psi.
Gravity acounts for .5 psi of resitance for every foot of vertical height.
3/16 beer line has about 3 psi resitance for every foot of line.

So in your case lets take your Pale Ale you wanted 2.5 volumes of co2. 12psi at 40*...ok good.

Now you have to counter balance that 12 psi.

Take 12psi - 2psi for your faucet=10 psi - 1psi for the shank itself=9 psi - .5 psi for the 1 ft of height you indicated= 8psi.

You have 8 psi left you have to counter balance with resistance from your beer line.
3/16 beer line has 3 psi resitance per foot so you should try 2-3 feet of 3/16 beer line and see what you get. Start with 3 feet and chop a couple inches off at a time until you get a pour you like.

[Kealia]

Ok sorry guys went out of town: here is what I did try for my pale (this was on tasty's calcs)
Fridge @ 40F
Desired volumes of CO2: 2.5
CO2 pressure required for 2.5 volumes: 12 PSI
Pressure drop per foot of hose: 1PSI
Desired pressure at dispensing: 1PSI
Assume vertical height from keg to tap: 1 foot
Hose length required: about 9 feet

I would have thought this would take care of the issue. These numbers look right to me.
Could it be the TYPE of beer line you are using? Maybe it's too thin and not providing the proper resistance?

Typically, if you're getting foamy pours it's because lines are too short so I would always go longer. Like 12-14 feet since 9 isn't working with you. Generally the worst thing that happens is that your pours are too slow. You can always cut some off as needed.

Sorry to hear about the troubles - keep us posted.

[MadBrewer]

Yeah, based on those numbers I think something around 12 ft sounds about right. But that just seems like a crazy long legnth for a kegerator setup. I don't have a kegerator so I guess I can't speak for that. I based my answer on what I have been through. My taps are inside my fridge. I actually had lousy pours when I started out until I started cutting back my beer line legnth. Running 5-6 ft of 3/16 beer line I had too much resistance for my system. I had to cut that down in half.

What size beer line are you using with only 1 psi resistance per foot? 3/16 is most common and has around 3 psi resistance per ft. The thing with this is it's a lot of trial and error...every setup is unique. There is no set answer. So this is all only with one keg, did you try a picnic tap with 5-6 ft of 3/16 beer line? Keep your head up, you'll get around it eventually.

[jon326]

Yes all foam all the time. Also in the past i've tried even a 15' line (thats how it came), cut it to 12, then 10, etc etc. honestly the math always seems right. im going to wait until i get to my next station and either cut the dip tube a bit or just outright use new kegs (will need em anyway). Also - it's a Sanyo Kegerator, and I HATE tearing it apart to replace the line to try new lines. Thinking of modding it so i get more room to work with.

[bpgreen]

I doubt very highly that it's the keg. It's something in the CO2/delivery system. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy more kegs. That's a good idea until you get too many, which doesn't happen often. It actually happened to me when I bought some tested kegs a couple of years ago. They were $100 for 4, so I bought 8, thinking that maybe 6 would work. One box came damaged and they sent a new one without waiting to see if the kegs were damaged, so I ended up with 12 and they were all good. So I was up to 17 kegs for a while, but never had more than 8 filled at a given time.

I wonder if the pressure gauge is accurate. I've got two and one is clearly not right. I use it on the kegs that are out of the fridge, so when I get them in the fridge and cooled off, the pressure should drop, but it's often really high. So now I know I just have to dial it back with the regulator that's outside.

I also am not at all opposed to adjusting once it's in the fridge. In fact, I'll often hook up the keg and pour with no CO2 connected at all until it starts to slow down. Then I'll reconnect for a while. The main reason I started doing this is that I had an undetected leak and lost a nearly full canister in one day.

[Kealia]

I wonder if the pressure gauge is accurate. I've got two and one is clearly not right. I use it on the kegs that are out of the fridge, so when I get them in the fridge and cooled off, the pressure should drop, but it's often really high. So now I know I just have to dial it back with the regulator that's outside.

This is a good thought. We all assume that our regulators are 100% accurate and mess with other things without considering this. Perhaps trying a lower PSI for a while? You'll likely need to bleed off what could be overcarbed beer but it's another direction to go/try.

[jon326]

I've tried both regulators - ones a dual TapRite and the other is the factory regulator that was literally never used and still in the packaging. I've also tried bleeding off, lowing the PSI next to nothing, making sure I let it rest for sometimes days before retrying.