Mash Temps and Times

[JohnSant]

Don't know if this has been answered or not but here goes. Is there a way to figure the mash temperature and time for each type of grain or is it the beer style? I have BeerSmith which figures this for you but hay if not in front of the computer I may need to know this, and knowledge is power.

[bpgreen]

I've found that an hour is usually enough time. If you're mashing at a low temperature and want a lot of fermentation sugar, you can mash longer.

Lower mash temperatures give more fermentation sugar (thinner beer). Higher temperatures give more body.

[Crazy Climber]

I agree w/ bpgreen - an hour is generally plenty for a traditional mash. I've seen recommendations to mash longer -- 75 to 90 min. -- if doing BIAB, due to the thinner grain to water ratio.

[BlackDuck]

I one of the guys that goes for 75 minutes. Why? Well, because it just works for me.

To answer your question more directly, I don't really think there is a set time and temp for each particular type of grain. It would really depend on the recipe/beer style. Like bpgreen said, if your looking for a thinner but more fermentable wort for, let's say a hoppy ale, then you might mash at 150. If your looking for a less fermentable, fuller body wort for a porter or stout, you might mash at 154 or even 156. So to figure out your ideal mash temp will most likely depend on what type of recipe your doing and what you want the beer to be like in the end.

[The_Professor]

I believe the real answer of how long you need to mash is similar to the answer of how long you need to ferment. Although one can say two or three weeks, if you aren't measuring the gravity, it may not actually be fermented well or at all. In the case of mashing, if you aren't checking, the mash may not be complete as well. Usually an iodine test is the end all check. I haven't ever used iodine but I have checked the gravity (Brix) on occasion and if the preboil number is good the mash is at least good(perhaps not perfect).

My example of checking the gravity (Brix) during the mash would be (as Crazy Climber suggested) my only real BIAB batch. I had read that a 90 minute mash might be needed so I checked at 60 minutes. The gravity (Brix) seemed really low so I went the 90 minutes and it was fine.

An example of NOT checking would be my latest 1868 120. The recipe uses a high mash temperature and I hit it well but I did a 60 minute mash without checking. My OG wound up being quite a bit low and I bet If I had mashed longer it would have been fine.

An hour should usually be fine for "normal" circumstances but if anything is different you might want to check rather than have issues because of the mash time.

[BlackDuck]

One thing to add....you can play with this in BeerSmith. For any particular recipe, set your mash for 60 minutes at 150, then take a note of the predicted final gravity. Then, go back and adjust the mash temp only to 156, you should see that your predicted final gravity will go up a few points. That's because it will be less fermentable, leaving you a fuller body.

[BigPapaG]

Everything that's been said is pretty much golden...

With today's highly modified grains, most times, you can get away with a 60 minute single infusion mash.

That's where we add all the grains to all the water and hold it at a constant temp for a period of time.
Usually, that temp is between 148°F (thinner beer, more fermentable sugars) and 156°F (more mouthfeel, less fermentable sugars).

There are times where step mashing can be beneficial however...

Ie: when you are using less modified grains, when you have a high percentage of wheat in the grist, when you are using cereal grains that have not been pre-geletinized or when you want to do a decoction mash to treat a portion of the wort to carmelization and additional malliard reactions and add it back to the main wort to raise the temp to the next step.

Here's a good article from Brad Smith on the use of a cereal mash to geletinize cereal grains for example:

When to do a Cereal Mash

There are a number of other articles in his blog that are good...

Here's another good piece from BYO Magazine on The Science of Step Mashing.

BYO: The Science of Step Mashing

Also, may I suggest doing a web search on mash rests and mash steps to find more tidbits of detail that may or may not bode well as tools in your brewing arsenal.

[Gymrat]

Don't know if this has been answered or not but here goes. Is there a way to figure the mash temperature and time for each type of grain or is it the beer style? I have BeerSmith which figures this for you but hay if not in front of the computer I may need to know this, and knowledge is power.

You don't do mash temperatures or times for particular grains. You do them for results you are looking for in your beer. For example when doing an IPA I like to mash at 148 to 150 degrees for 90 minutes. Lower temperatures for longer periods make your wort more fermentable. I do this to dry my IPA out to showcase the hops and raise the ABV. When doing a porter or a stout I like to mash closer to 160 degrees for an hour. The higher temperature causes the wort to be less fermentable. This leaves the malt flavor and body more in tact. It makes for a beer with more body and more malt character. Other beers I do somewhere in between these temperatures depending on what kind of character I want my beer to have. Most of my beers, like ambers and reds, I mash at 152 to 155 for an hour.

[HerbMeowing]

This has long guided my mash "temperature program."
As others have aptly noted ... it all depends on what you're trying to brew.

---
GETTING THE MOST FROM AMERICAN MALT
Notes from a talk by Dr. Michael Lewis (BIO: http://www.brewerspublications.com/auth ... ael-lewis/)
Home Brew U - March 27, 1993

For American pale malt, optimum fermentability is obtained at temperatures of 55° - 60°C (131° - 140°F).
At these temperatures, the beta amylase enzymes produce maltose most efficiently.
This happens early in the mash in a fairly short time, approximately 20 minutes.

The alpha amylase enzymes, on the other hand, produce the dextrins that give us the total extract we desire at temperatures between 70° - 75°C. (158° - 167°F).

It is possible to mash American pale malt with a single temperature infusion.
While this can be a reasonable compromise approach, it inevitably results in a loss of
either fermentability or extract, since the temperature is not optimum for either.

The best plan for mashing American pale malt is a "temperature program" in order to obtain the optimum balance of extract and fermentability.

A sample two temperature program, utilizing the popular "camp cooler" mashing method, would be something like this:
1. Stir in enough hot water at around 70°C. (approximately 158° - 160°F) to make a thick mash, so the temperature settles in between 55° - 60°C (131° - 140°F).

Initial mash temperatures as low as 50°C (122°F) are acceptable.
Hold for 20 - 30 minutes at this temperature.

2. After 20 - 30 minutes, add enough hot water just off the boil to raise the temperature to 70° - 75°C (158° - 167°F) for the remainder of the mash period.

What many American home brewers don't realize is just how low a temperature American pale malt needs for optimum fermentability and how high a temperature it needs for optimum extract.

Dextrins do not, as far as experiments disclose, contribute "body" as is frequently stated, but rather contribute a desirable aftertaste. The so-called "protein rest" usually advocated for American pale malt does not seem to have any real basis.

Everything that needs to happen in the mash will happen with a proper temperature program that addresses fermentability and extract. [Dr. Lewis's comment was actually that the protein rest was "bullshit"!]

---
REF: HOMEBREW Digest #1660 Fri 17 February 1995
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/1660.html

[JohnSant]

You all are Golden. Been reading online on mash and temps. but needed the BORG input for more rounded understanding(I need simple terms, or I'll have a brain fart). All this info I hope will make me a more rounded brewer and improving my beer to the level that most will enjoy it. I'm going to be doing eBIAB so with that in mind, will double crushing have an affect with sugar from grains in respect to single crush? Thanks once again all for your free advice and I'll take to heart.

[BlackDuck]

will double crushing have an affect with sugar from grains in respect to single crush?

It most definitely can. However, if the first crush is good, you may not need to double crush. I always double crush at my LHBS, but that's ONLY because there are a lot of uncrushed grains still remaining after the first run through. Take a close look at the crush after the first time. If almost all of the grains are broken, cracked, split, etc. etc. you may be good. If not, run it through again. Be carefule though, because you can over crush grain. If it's over crushed it will have a lot of powder and dust, which may lead to problems like a stuck sparge, or excess grain particles in the boil which can lead to tannins. But I would think you would need A LOT of powder to stick a sparge or A LOT of excess grains in the wort to really become a problem.