I didn't brew this yet, but I'm planning on it in the next few days. As some of you know, I tend to make weird dark beers in the winter, that violate all sense of order or normalcy - just because I can. A dark Kolsch is also in the plans because I make one of those every year. I might even do the same thing I'm doing here and turn it into a purple kolsch like substance that offends the Reinheitsgebot gods.
So my plan is this for 2.5 gallons.
Cereal mash 1/3# of black rice (which is actually purple due to anthocyanins - same stuff that makes blueberries blue). Add 1/2# flaked corn, water, and bring it to light body mash temps. Toss in some amylase enzyme, and let this "mash". (I could use some 2-row or 6-row obviously, but I am doing this to use up some extract and don't want to bump the OG up any higher).
Add 3# of leftover MoreBeer Extra Light LME that I've got in the fridge.
I think I'm going to do this hop schedule:
1/2oz Saaz (3%) @45
1/2oz Hersbrucker (1.7%) @30
1/2oz Saaz @10
And I'm going to pitch some WLP080 Cream Ale Yeast, which is some blend of Lager and Ale yeast.
I think this should be tasty and easy to drink after Cross Country skiing. And the anthocyanins from the black rice are good for you.
It should turn out purpleish or something like that. At least I think so.
I have no freaking idea what the SRM will really be. But it should be dark-ish and have a purple hue regardless.
What ya think? LOL.
Purple Cream Aleish
Moderators: BlackDuck, Beer-lord, LouieMacGoo, philm00x, gwcr
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
I think you should move next door to me and help me to open up to ideas just like this one.
PABs Brewing
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
When you say cereal mash for the rice, at what temp?
Will you mill the rice first?
Then adding the corn, water temp adjustment etc... Or Would a more traditional saccrification, 156-158°F would be a good temp for both rice and corn in this case? (Those temps are in the range required for geletinization of both the rice and corn)
Anyway... What to call it... Anthocyanin Cream, Purple Nurple...
If we changed your name from Mashani to a Symbol, you could call it Purple Rain!
Will you mill the rice first?
Then adding the corn, water temp adjustment etc... Or Would a more traditional saccrification, 156-158°F would be a good temp for both rice and corn in this case? (Those temps are in the range required for geletinization of both the rice and corn)
Anyway... What to call it... Anthocyanin Cream, Purple Nurple...
If we changed your name from Mashani to a Symbol, you could call it Purple Rain!
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
@BigPapaG:
Cereal mash = mix the rice with a bit of enzyme (or 10-20% 6-row/2-row if you want, but I'm not using any) in more water then you would usually cook rice in (so it remains liquidy) and then bring up to higher end mash temps as you describe. Let it rest for 10-15 minutes to convert any existing accessible starch, then bring the whole thing to a boil and cook it until the rice is gelatinized, and it releases much of the internal starches (and in this case color) into the water. You could do this with corn kernals too (or grits). Or whole oats (or large steel cut oats). Or raw wheat (Belgians do this for wits/sours). Or anything other adjunct like that. You do not need to crush it, although you can crack it a bit if you want, but to avoid a stuck mash later it's probably best to leave everything somewhat chunky. Or if you BIAB it then no worries either way I think. Also see below ***.
It's not necessary for flaked grains because they have already been gelatinized as part of that process.
You want to stir this "mash" pretty much the whole time it's boiling - that helps release the starches (think like making risotto, what makes it creamy) and keeps it from burning. Probably around 20-30 minutes is good.
*** Done traditionally, you would then add this whole thing to your main mash as part of a step infusion mash. As in you'd be doing a protein rest or the like for your main mash, and this infusion would bring that main mash up to sacc. temps. So traditionally you'd calculate the water volume based on what's needed for that infusion. I'm not sure the initial bit of 2 row/6 row/enzymes in the traditional mash is even needed, I think you really could simply boil the rice/corn and then go from there. Everything should get converted in the main mash anyways. But I'm describing it the way "it's always been done" as such. Then you would let it mash again with the full enzymes found already in your main mash to convert the now available starches. The enzymes can get into the rice/corn/etc. at this point as it's now water soluble. And a lot of the starch has already been released into the water.
I'm just going to add cool water after the boil and stir until I get it back down to mash temps and then add more enzyme. Since I'm not adding any other grain, just extract, I'm going to mash the flaked corn and rice in one pot at this point, and then just strain it out while pouring the resulting liquid into my boil pot, then add the extract and top up to boil volume.
Did that all make sense?
Cereal mash = mix the rice with a bit of enzyme (or 10-20% 6-row/2-row if you want, but I'm not using any) in more water then you would usually cook rice in (so it remains liquidy) and then bring up to higher end mash temps as you describe. Let it rest for 10-15 minutes to convert any existing accessible starch, then bring the whole thing to a boil and cook it until the rice is gelatinized, and it releases much of the internal starches (and in this case color) into the water. You could do this with corn kernals too (or grits). Or whole oats (or large steel cut oats). Or raw wheat (Belgians do this for wits/sours). Or anything other adjunct like that. You do not need to crush it, although you can crack it a bit if you want, but to avoid a stuck mash later it's probably best to leave everything somewhat chunky. Or if you BIAB it then no worries either way I think. Also see below ***.
It's not necessary for flaked grains because they have already been gelatinized as part of that process.
You want to stir this "mash" pretty much the whole time it's boiling - that helps release the starches (think like making risotto, what makes it creamy) and keeps it from burning. Probably around 20-30 minutes is good.
*** Done traditionally, you would then add this whole thing to your main mash as part of a step infusion mash. As in you'd be doing a protein rest or the like for your main mash, and this infusion would bring that main mash up to sacc. temps. So traditionally you'd calculate the water volume based on what's needed for that infusion. I'm not sure the initial bit of 2 row/6 row/enzymes in the traditional mash is even needed, I think you really could simply boil the rice/corn and then go from there. Everything should get converted in the main mash anyways. But I'm describing it the way "it's always been done" as such. Then you would let it mash again with the full enzymes found already in your main mash to convert the now available starches. The enzymes can get into the rice/corn/etc. at this point as it's now water soluble. And a lot of the starch has already been released into the water.
I'm just going to add cool water after the boil and stir until I get it back down to mash temps and then add more enzyme. Since I'm not adding any other grain, just extract, I'm going to mash the flaked corn and rice in one pot at this point, and then just strain it out while pouring the resulting liquid into my boil pot, then add the extract and top up to boil volume.
Did that all make sense?
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
Thanks Dave, had all that though...
Just wondered if you were going to do the 'traditional method' or mill the rice, geletinize it and add in the rest for the mash... 'Cause that could all be done up at mash temps... Rice at 158 for 20-30 min. Then cool with water as you suggest to your target mash temp with the corn et al...
Just wondered if you were going to do the 'traditional method' or mill the rice, geletinize it and add in the rest for the mash... 'Cause that could all be done up at mash temps... Rice at 158 for 20-30 min. Then cool with water as you suggest to your target mash temp with the corn et al...
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
Well hopefully it helps someone elseBigPapaG wrote:Thanks Dave, had all that though...
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
I decided to go ahead and mash up more purple juice then I need here. May as well just do it all now and then freeze/fridge the leftovers and re-use later. So I started the cereal mash of 1# of black rice. Will be boiling soon. Gives me something to stir to keep my mind off other things for a bit.
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
So this did not work out as expected.
The cereal mash went fine, I got good conversion - but the color ended up nowhere near as dark as I expected. What came out of the cereal mash did have purple hues, but based on the depth of color I thought I might end up with "pale lavender" hues in my beer instead of purple hues... simply wasn't dark enough to do more then that.
But in the boil, the color that was there got obliterated. Like how purple cabbage turns grey if you cook it too long. So I ended up with just a slightly more golden colored cream ale instead of a purple or lavender cream ale.
So for future reference, if you do this - and what I will try next time - take the cereal mash, and mash it up separately from the rest. Reserve that stuff. Keep it out of the main boil, just use some extract or another mash of whatever stuff you are using... Add the reserved purple stuff maybe in the last 5 minutes like a "late extract addition". That should preserve the color. I think. Also, in a beer like this, I'd also suggest to leave out the corn and go with a full pound of the purple rice instead, to get more depth of color.
I know you can get purple beer by adding purple carrot juice at flameout, but I was hoping to find another way.
Oh well... It does look nice anyways, and the wort tasted nice. The purple rice left a slight vanilla and nutty flavor in the cereal mash that should be noticeable in the end product. I think I'll use the rest of this stuff in a Nut Brown Ale that I have up next, and do my Dark Kolsch with cold steeped dark grains like I did last time.
This ended up as 2.6 gallons instead of 2.5, so my gravity is a touch lower then I expected, but that's ok, it's more to style anyways.
The cereal mash went fine, I got good conversion - but the color ended up nowhere near as dark as I expected. What came out of the cereal mash did have purple hues, but based on the depth of color I thought I might end up with "pale lavender" hues in my beer instead of purple hues... simply wasn't dark enough to do more then that.
But in the boil, the color that was there got obliterated. Like how purple cabbage turns grey if you cook it too long. So I ended up with just a slightly more golden colored cream ale instead of a purple or lavender cream ale.
So for future reference, if you do this - and what I will try next time - take the cereal mash, and mash it up separately from the rest. Reserve that stuff. Keep it out of the main boil, just use some extract or another mash of whatever stuff you are using... Add the reserved purple stuff maybe in the last 5 minutes like a "late extract addition". That should preserve the color. I think. Also, in a beer like this, I'd also suggest to leave out the corn and go with a full pound of the purple rice instead, to get more depth of color.
I know you can get purple beer by adding purple carrot juice at flameout, but I was hoping to find another way.
Oh well... It does look nice anyways, and the wort tasted nice. The purple rice left a slight vanilla and nutty flavor in the cereal mash that should be noticeable in the end product. I think I'll use the rest of this stuff in a Nut Brown Ale that I have up next, and do my Dark Kolsch with cold steeped dark grains like I did last time.
This ended up as 2.6 gallons instead of 2.5, so my gravity is a touch lower then I expected, but that's ok, it's more to style anyways.
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Re: Purple Cream Aleish
Still sounds tasty though...
Sorry the color didn't show like you had hoped...
Maybe cold steep some blueberry skins and pour the liquid in at secondary?
That should get you some color without adding much flavor.
Sorry the color didn't show like you had hoped...
Maybe cold steep some blueberry skins and pour the liquid in at secondary?
That should get you some color without adding much flavor.
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
Well this was a bizzaro world fermentation with 2 different krausens of two different types (I think due to 2 different yeasts in the blended strain) and the second one never fell, there was still 1/2" of it today when I bottled it. But it was done, been sitting at 1.012 for a while now.
It actually bottled a lot lighter in color then the hydro sample above. Whatever was left of the formerly purple colored stuff "floc'd out", or got stuck up in the lingering krausen. What was in between looked like any old cream ale. It bottle very clear too.
So... ???
It actually bottled a lot lighter in color then the hydro sample above. Whatever was left of the formerly purple colored stuff "floc'd out", or got stuck up in the lingering krausen. What was in between looked like any old cream ale. It bottle very clear too.
So... ???
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
So this is the final product. As you can see, it's not purple. Where all the color from the purple rice went, only God knows.
It tastes, amazingly enough ... like a cream ale!
It tastes, amazingly enough ... like a cream ale!
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Re: Purple Cream Aleish
I just made a cream ale. How is the corn/butter flavor/aroma? I used 2#s of flaked corn in mine for approximately a 6 gallon batch and think I over did it a bit. I also used Lager Yeast, WLP810 - San Fran Lager yeast in hopes of getting a really clean and smooth flavor.
I tasted in a few weeks ago and it was a heavy corn flavor. Tasted again on sunday during kegging and luckily it is diminishing a bit. I have it on CO2 right now at room temp and am hoping the yeast will clean it up a little more prior to dropping it in the kegerator. I am usually not a fan of these styles but had to make it for my brew club competition.
For my club presentation tonight I am presenting on the competition styles for February which is American Lager (1B), Light American Lager (1A), and Cream Ale (1C). All of which disgust me! lol.
SO.... in all, just looking to hear a little about the flavor profile you get from yours.
I tasted in a few weeks ago and it was a heavy corn flavor. Tasted again on sunday during kegging and luckily it is diminishing a bit. I have it on CO2 right now at room temp and am hoping the yeast will clean it up a little more prior to dropping it in the kegerator. I am usually not a fan of these styles but had to make it for my brew club competition.
For my club presentation tonight I am presenting on the competition styles for February which is American Lager (1B), Light American Lager (1A), and Cream Ale (1C). All of which disgust me! lol.
SO.... in all, just looking to hear a little about the flavor profile you get from yours.
Howling Husky Brewing Company
Re: Purple Cream Aleish
It has some of the corn/rice macro beer vibe, which especially is noticeable when very cold in the flavor side - once it warms up a tad, it becomes more of a background flavor, but more noticeable in the aroma. There is a tiny bit of a walnut like flavor/aroma too but it's very much in the background, and I think that came from the rice. This stuff is still pretty young and has not been lagered really at all, so everything may mellow and smooth out a lot more if I stuff it in the fridge for 4 weeks. But it does not scream *I IS CORN*. It's not like that. Probably because the adjunct is half rice.
I do not taste any Diacetyl really though, it's not buttery. I think the ale yeast in the WLP080 blend cleaned it all up rapidly.
This is a tad too bitter. A little less hops for bittering would have been better. I didn't think I used too much but apparently I did. That or the same thing that added that walnut like vibe I'm mentioning (something the black rice added) also added some bitterness.
It's actually a lot clearer then that pic makes it look. That was taken cold and immediately after pouring, lots of condensation on the glass. I think it will clear completely if I lager it.
I do not taste any Diacetyl really though, it's not buttery. I think the ale yeast in the WLP080 blend cleaned it all up rapidly.
This is a tad too bitter. A little less hops for bittering would have been better. I didn't think I used too much but apparently I did. That or the same thing that added that walnut like vibe I'm mentioning (something the black rice added) also added some bitterness.
It's actually a lot clearer then that pic makes it look. That was taken cold and immediately after pouring, lots of condensation on the glass. I think it will clear completely if I lager it.
Disgusting or not, they are difficult to brew well (as in without style flaws). That's a tough assignment.For my club presentation tonight I am presenting on the competition styles for February which is American Lager (1B), Light American Lager (1A), and Cream Ale (1C). All of which disgust me! lol.