Sumerian Beer

[mashani]

I think it depends on the yeast strain if you will start to suppress the lacto or not. Some yeast is much better at out competing other organisms, then others, especially those "Killer Yeast" strains. And I think a TRUE top cropper (33% headspace) would likely get you a lot more good yeast from the krausen then a different kind of strain. Those strains often get a huge amount of good yeast stuck in the rocky krausen. (this is one of the reasons feeding 3787 makes it happy, you knock a whole bunch of good viable yeast back into the beer when you pour stuff through the krausen). Many of the old strains are those true top croppers because they open fermented, and true top croppers are a really good thing when you open ferment for many reasons. It is quite possible that the lacto bugs won't remain stuck at the top like the yeast, as they are much smaller critters, and would more easily fall back into the wort through the krausen. All they can do is fall or get pushed around, they can't crawl up. When the primary is going nuts, even in an open fermenter, many falling bugs should tend to get blown away from the beer and to the side by the CO2 blanket being created. So the closer to the top you go, the more good yeast and less lacto there should be I'd think. There wouldn't be a lacto pellicle yet early on in the fermentation.

It also can just be a matter of luck. One way you can try to revive a strain without a lab or agar plates/culturing kits is to simply make a whole bunch of very tiny batches of beer or starters from something that went a bit weird and step them up, and see which ones make a better small batch of beer then others, then preserve those and throw out the rest. Your simply hoping to get lucky and get more of X then Y in there, to the point where X out competes Y effectively enough. Your unlikely to get a pure culture, but you can get lucky and get close or at least get a pleasant blended culture vs. an offensive one. You can then take those and repeat... and then the best of those and repeat... and so on. And maybe end up with something really good again.

That said, Elizabethan folks if they ended up with yeast gone bad would have most likely just gone to a neighbors and borrowed a bucket of their krausen or lees from a good batch and used it to re-start another batch, or bummed some yeast from a brewery like my German ancestors would have done anytime they delivered grain, or maybe tried a spontaneous or cultured ferment where or with/what they baked their bread, if it wasn't already the same place that they brewed.

If you look at "blue prints" as such of old monasteries, the brewery or breweries (sometimes there were as many as 3 of them in holy roman empire times) were placed near the bakery - so a little "micro climate" would probably form over time and help stabilize things too. A happy little fermenting zone as such. And I'm sure lots of beard yeast was involved too LOL.

But that's about as far back as my knowledge goes. Your pushing it further. But the Sumerians clearly established a connection between baking and brewing as well.

[The_Professor]

I grabbed a sample of the second "Sumerian Beer" from this thread.

I wanted to see if I would want to harvest the yeast. I also thought I wouldn't bother with a pour pic since the color seemed similar in the fermenter.

This is the one with 50/50 raw/malted barley and cardamom, thyme, grains of paradise.

The brix today is about 9.75 and I wouldn't expect it to drop more in a couple of days. Per brix calculations that gives me about 3.33 ABV. The flavor for this one is a lot better than the first one. This one has a really nice mildly tart lemon flavor, pretty much like a lemonade (without a lot of sugar). It would be much easier to have a few glasses of this one. The color is somewhat lighter.

[The_Professor]

I pulled a sample from the 3rd brew in this thread.

Brix from 15.5 (1.064) to 10.5 (1.028) for about 4.75 ABV.

This one is both interesting and nice. That's good since there is enough for a few bottles.

Some sourness is present again but the tart flavor is tending more toward orange than lemon with this one. This would be much easier to drink a couple glasses of.

Just sampling tonight to see what I have and get a brix. I'll be bottling a few bottles tomorrow.

[bpgreen]

Thanks for the updates.

I'm really interested in ancient brewing techniques, even if the closest I get is the occasional gruit.

[The_Professor]

Thanks, bp. I know I lurk on some threads that I follow. Still nice to know someone is interested.

I got six bottles filled today, along with a glass full (with a top off).

This one (the 3rd in this thread) turned out really nice. Light sourness with a sip, noticeable sourness in the aftertaste and good enough to think, "I'll have another sip of that".

It's either slightly darker or a bit more cloudy than the others.

[Whamolagan]

You truly are a renaissance man of our beer group.

[The_Professor]

I am drinking a glass of the 3rd batch today. It has been in the bottle almost a month now.
All the flavors are nice and mellow now, including the sourness/tartness.
I can see some ancient writer saying this is a type of wine made from barley, not because of the alcoholic strength, but because there is a nice sweet/tart thing going on rather than a malty/bitter thing as we know now. I could drink a few of these at a festival.

[The_Professor]

I found a bottle of the "Sumerian Beer" in the back of the fridge, apparently aged for 4 months. Very nice mellow tartness on a bit of maltiness. No one drinking this now-a-days would identify it as beer, but it is.

It has actually cleared up nicely and has a good "beer" (less cloudy/hazy) color to it now.

[mashani]

Sweet Tart sounds a lot like a Flemish Red. And I would identify that as beer. So I would probably like your stuff.

[bpgreen]

I found a bottle of the "Sumerian Beer" in the back of the fridge, apparently aged for 4 months. Very nice mellow tartness on a bit of maltiness. No one drinking this now-a-days would identify it as beer, but it is.

It has actually cleared up nicely and has a good "beer" (less cloudy/hazy) color to it now.

Not directly related, but I found a gruit (two row, raw wheat, wormwood, sweet gale, juniper berries; added booster because I had poor cinema) that I bottled in January 2013. It's not beer, but it's definitely beer-like.

[BigPapaG]

... added booster because I had poor cinema...

Uh... Um...you sposed to add popcorn when you have poor cinema...

[bpgreen]

... added booster because I had poor cinema...

Uh... Um...you sposed to add popcorn when you have poor cinema...

Stupid autocorrect. And I even looked before posting. Poor conversion (worked this time).

[BigPapaG]

... added booster because I had poor cinema...

Uh... Um...you sposed to add popcorn when you have poor cinema...

Stupid autocorrect. And I even looked before posting. Poor conversion (worked this time).

[The_Professor]

...No one drinking this now-a-days would identify it as beer...

Sweet Tart sounds a lot like a Flemish Red. And I would identify that as beer. So I would probably like your stuff.

Not directly related, but I found a gruit (two row, raw wheat, wormwood, sweet gale, juniper berries; added booster because I had poor cinema) that I bottled in January 2013. It's not beer, but it's definitely beer-like.

When I wrote that I knew it was not totally true and I'm glad that both of you spoke up about it.

But, when there is a story in the news about ancient Egyptians making and drinking beer, how many people are picturing them drinking fizzy yellow American lager? Or if the news story says something about not being like the beer we drink today, who imagines it as some awful swill--as someone unenlightened might imagine a home brewer making today?

[The_Professor]

Time for another version of "Sumerian Beer". This is one I have wanted to do for a while.

I find reference to "black beer" and "fine black beer" listed with other beer types along with a note that "the cheapest being black beer".

As I wonder why "black beer" would be the cheapest, still assuming the Sumerian mash was a slow and low bake, the first thing that comes to mind is someone totally burning the grains they are supposed to be mashing. And if the heat was so high as to burn the grain then it was also so high as to destroy the amylase before it could do much conversion.If this is the case, the worst black beer would be non alcoholic foul tasting liquid. One could mix the burnt grain with some well mashed grain (say 50/50) for a slightly alcoholic and perhaps less foul tasting beer. So that would be "cheap black beer". But a "fine black beer" would be made by producing the burnt/roasted grain portion on purpose and mixing a certain percentage with normally mashed grains.

Trying a slightly different mix of malted and raw barley (previously I used malted 2-row and raw barley) I am using malted 2-row and pearl barley this time. I took about a quarter of the grain and after soaking it overnight to get it well hydrated (and starting to sour slightly) roasted it at 450 for a couple hours, checking to stir it often.



Tomorrow I will mix that in with the other 3/4 of the grain and "mash" it in the oven. Then I'll see if my wild yeast from honey can still do a decent job.

This is just another 1 gallon test batch to see what I get. Not sure if I will get a brown or black beer.