Double Crushing Your Grains For Greater Efficiency

[ScrewyBrewer]

I would do a pole if I had the time to figure out how, but how many of us double crush our grains before mashing?
Do you double crush your grains when infusion mashing?
Did that ever introduce tannins causing astringency, bitterness or haze into your beer?

Do you double crush your grains when doing BIAB?
Did that ever introduce tannins causing astringency, bitterness or haze into your beer?

The reason I ask is because I always have my grain double crushed and I brew BIAB. I have never brewed a beer that had permanent chill haze, astringency or bitterness. I did stumble on a unique way of squeezing the last drop of wort from the grains though. With the grain bag filled with wet grain, sitting inside a perforated basket, that sits inside a 10 gallon kettle which catches all the wort squeezed out of the grains. I simply push the bottom of a 5 gallon pot down into the wet grains. When putting all of my weight behind the push, quite a lot of wort is collected from the effort. So even with squeezing double crushed grains, there is not a hint of tannin extraction in the wort. Has an old brewing myth just been debunked?

[bpgreen]

I assume you mean that you'd do a poll, since doing a pole conjures up something else entirely.

I try to buy all of my grains uncrushed. I've occasionally messed up when I buy online since the default seems to be crushed.

I don't do all grain, but do partial mashes (by some definitions, maybe mini mashes). And I do BIAB. I use a cereal killer or the mill on a KitchenAid and do a pretty fine crush (almost a coarse flour; that's an exaggeration, but I crush a lot more than the LHBS does). I squeeze the bag, as well, because I read that the tannin extraction problem is a myth. I've never noticed tannins, but the mash is generally a relatively small percentage of my final wort.

[Beer-lord]

I never double crush and never had a need to. As it is, my grain mill crushes very well and I'm pleased with it.
As for squeezing, I bought some awesome, bright orange 'heat' gloves and I squeeze the snot out of the bags and never had a tannin problem. I don't believe squeezing causes tannins though I have no proof of it causing or not causing haze.

[The_Professor]

I assume you mean that you'd do a poll, since doing a pole conjures up something else entirely...

That's what I thought too.

[bpgreen]

I assume you mean that you'd do a poll, since doing a pole conjures up something else entirely...

That's what I thought too.

Isn't "That's what she said" the "correct" response?

[The_Professor]

I assume you mean that you'd do a poll, since doing a pole conjures up something else entirely...

That's what I thought too.

Isn't "That's what she said" the "correct" response?

It is, but at least I didn't post the Google Image I found......

[Foothiller]

Needs for multiple crushes can depend on the mill's adjustment. I once bought grain at a store where one did one's own milling, and the mill was adjusted so poorly that I had to run the grain through 5 times before it was right. Normally From my current favorite shop once is enough.

[Pudge]

How much would just giving it an added stir or two during the mash? You won't lose much heat if any and those enzymes aren't swimming around in there. They could use a little help, right?

[MadBrewer]

I have double crushed my grains plenty of times with no issues. I have also sqeezed BIAB batches several times when I did brew that way...again no problems.

Tannins are a product of temperature and ph. The whole dont squeeze your sac thing probably came from BIAB brewers that had ph issues and blamed squeezing for the tannins and not temperature and ph. My belief is what was really meant by that was dont try squeezing every last bit of sugars out of the grains by over sparging. Oversparging would be a much bigger contributor to tannins than litterally squeezing a sac of grains anyday. As with a lot of brewing theories and legends, it probably got twisted up along the way from how it started or was meant to be taken.

[FedoraDave]

I do both BIAB (for my 2.5g batches) and mash tun (for my 5g batches), and I don't double crush; never felt the need to. I so something similar to what Vince does, putting a sturdy cooling rack on the pot, then pressing on the bag of wet grain with the pot lid. My efficiency with BIAB is what it is with the mash tun, and they match what BrewToad says my OG should be.

No tannins, haze, or other stuff in the finished product, that I can detect.

[BlackDuck]

I always double crush at my LHBS. It's because I never liked the way the grain looked after the first crush. If they tightened the mill, I would probably on crush it once.

I mash in a cooler tun with manifold and haven't had any astringency or haze issues.


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[ScrewyBrewer]

I assume you mean that you'd do a poll, since doing a pole conjures up something else entirely...

Isn't "That's what she said" the "correct" response?

It is, but at least I didn't post the Google Image I found......

Now I feel like a boob.....Baa-dum-pum

[Bluejaye]

I don't double crush (I BIAB), but I bought a mill and set it how I like it. I pretty much hit what values BeerSmith thinks I should.

However, the one time I had to crush my grains at the LBHS (before I got the mill), I wasn't even in the ballpark with my numbers. That was a large factor in getting my own mill, which I ordered before I saw that a lot of people, especially BIAB people, were double crushing.

So I guess my thoughts are if you have a good mill, set properly, there is no need. If you are at the mercy of some one else's mill, double crush!

I squeeze the snot out of my bag. But now I'm trying to justify buying another pot just to do the method Screwy describes. If only I lived in a mansion with lots more room than SWMBO will let me dedicate to this hobby...

[ScrewyBrewer]

How much would just giving it an added stir or two during the mash? You won't lose much heat if any and those enzymes aren't swimming around in there. They could use a little help, right?

I tried doing that in the beginning, but after poking holes in two grain bags I had to give it up. Since then I've been using the third grain bag I bought for at least half a dozen batches and there's no holes in it at all. My mash efficiency runs between 70-75% roughly on average using a 2:1 mash thickness.

[Beer-lord]

I stir every 15 minutes and think it helps but I recently got a pump and recirc about half way thru.
There's an interesting article in either the latest Zymurgy or BYO magazine that talks about BIAB brewing and how he did some testing on not touching his mash at all, not even to adjust the temperature. He stated (if I remember right) that even if you lost 4-5 degrees in the hour, since about 85-90% of the conversion happens in the first 20-30 minutes, turning the fire on an off only makes things worse or at best, does nothing. Depending on the time of year, I might have to heat up twice in a 60 minute mash.
Just throwing that out there.