At my wits end and need the Borg

[Gymrat]

Simply replacing the LBKs would be a lot easier. Get food grade buckets and modify them. Is about the same price and much easier to clean and no hidden nooks or crannies.

[russki]

+1 to the capper being a possible culprit. I've heard of wing cappers cracking bottles (especially short ones like SN) before. All it takes is one weak spot/crack, and 30 psi inside the bottle go POP!

[BigPapaG]

I tend to agree on several points...

1.) Retire the LBK's... Use a good, clean, sanitized carboy for a few batches and see if the results change.

2.) Invest in a bench capper or capper / corker if you also do wine. I have seen the stress resilts that wing cappers can put on bottles, not to mention what they might do to a bottle designed for a screw top!
FURTHER NOTE: As I recall, there is a slight difference in the distance between the two beads on SA bottles that causes them to NOT work well with wing cappers... Too much force has to be exerted to make a good seal. Perhaps another Member can confirm / deny that info...

3.) Finally, I'll add my thoughts on sugar cubes... As good as modern manufacturing is... Or isn't, I would be hard pressed to believe that the exact same amount of sugar is present in each cube. Moreover, I would suspect that from batch to batch, and allowing for seasonal changes in temperature, that there might be variances in the amount of residual CO2 from batch to batch.
Might want to try measuring out each dose, or move to batch priming.

Good Luck!

[Brewbirds]

Thanks for all your replies I really need this brainstorming.

For me and others reading this who use them:

If it was the wing capper wouldn't the explosive damage be at the top of the bottle? I can tell how many bottles I lost because the necks have remained intact with caps still attached.

Most appear to be blowing out near the shoulder of the bottle with the exception of one where the bottom came off so cleanly that I could fit it back together like a puzzle piece.

The flange below the lip on the SN bottles is the same as the long neck bottles you buy at the LHBS I have never had any problems from bottling one type or the other.

Also I have five LBKs and have numbered them, I put the number of each one in the brew notes for each batch. I have brewed batches that are fine in an LBK that was previously used for a Bottle bomb batch.

I've had one gusher, one slightly over carbed, one carbed normal, and one is so young (in the bomb box) that it is barely carbed.

Any suggestions for fermenter replacement if I use frozen bottle ice chest method? We don't/can't do 5 gallon and don't have/can't buy a fermenting fridge.

[BigPapaG]

Not sure about the fermenters...

Edit: Although I think a couple of somebodys have them on sale this weekend!

But re: the bottle flange, it's not the size that matters, it's the distance from the top lip...

There is more distance from the top lip where the cap seats to the bottom of the lower lip on longnecks than there is on many short bottles. That distance is needed because the wing capper works by grabbing the bottom lip and pulling the capper bell down over the cap.

On bottles where that distance is shortened, one ends up exerting more downward force than needed, which could stress the bottle at any point, shoulder and bottom as well.

BTW: Excessive heating and quick cooling of bottles can also stress the glass.

You also expressed that some batches were more carbonated than others... Again, not confident in the use of the sugar cubes...

[FedoraDave]

Batch 1: This batch was all gushers and only a few days old, no off taste in sample. OG 1.051 FG 1.010 Bottled 8/5/13

Batch 2: We had already been drinking some from fridge when one still in closet went off no off taste slightly over carbed. OG 1.050 FG 1.011 Bottled 7/12/13

Batch 3: I put these in the bomb container as a precaution after #2 went off in case one got damaged and so far only one went off I have frozen bottle in with them now. Suited up and uncapped one it was undercarbed but no off flavors. OG 1.068 FG 1.014 Bottled 8/24/13

Batch 4: We had already tasted one of these after chilling it was an SNPA clone and was great no off flavors one went off and took about 8 others with it. Carb was normal. OG 1.051 FG 1.010

Batch 1: My guess is faulty malt. I've posted about gushers in batches in which I used chocolate malt (most likely all from the same bag), and Gymrat posted (in the MB community) a link to an article surmising that grain harvested when wet can cause gushers. Or it could have been a batch infection. Not all infections cause off-flavors.

Batch 2: I blame the bottle

Batch 3: Ditto

Batch 4: Same here.

Since, with the exception of Batch 1, it's only been individual bottles, that seems the only logical conclusion. Under-carbing obviously is not going to do it. Over-carbing can lead to it, but we've all had batches that were over-carbed and didn't result in bottle bombs. The only bottle bomb I've experienced was recently, in a stout that is also all gushers. But only one bottle. So while there's a problem with this batch (again, I blame the chocolate malt), I have to conclude it's unrelated to the lone grenade, and that was a matter of a weak bottle being filled with a gusher batch.

[Brewbirds]

Well darn I've been swilling all that nasty ole SNPA and Ruthless Rye for the bottles. Now I'm really happy I got those clone recipes, thanks again Rebel.

One more bit of help here please and I'll leave you be.

We are trying to clarify the CO2 Volumes.

In BeerSmith's and other residual CO2 calculators we have been putting in the highest reading found on the temp strip during fermentation.

We cold crash and so bottling day temps would be around 45-50F but then the beer sits on a conditioning shelf/storage shelf that stays about 80F in summer so what temp should we put in the calculator?

Also my brother has not been using/ entering data into the "Fermenting and Aging" boxes and want to know what effect it has on the brewing process.

Okay 2 questions: If there is an infection that doesn't leave off flavors is it safe to drink the surviving beers?

Thanks again for all the input.

[Tabasco]

I had a bottle neck snap right off when I put it in the wall mounted bottle opener. All of these suggestions people posted could be it, but as these bottles attrition out, this may just stop happening to you. I hope so.

I'm just about completely gotten out of bottling. I have six 5 gal corny's. That's a little crazy, but I still do at least 2-2-2, natural carb. I will still bottle some HME batches or special runs. Bottling is a PITA, but it is also a fun part of brewing. There's nothing like the pffffft of opening a homebrew. Many people bottle exclusively by choice, so stay with it ... don't get discouraged. I had a few bombs along the way, but not as many as you. I have a huge bottle inventory, and won't get rid of it.

Have you ever baked these bottles to sanitize? I hear that can weaken them. Don't lose sleep over it.

As far as infections, I've read that there is no organism that can survive the fermenting process that can hurt you. It's really off flavors that ruin the beer that's the problem. If it tastes ok ... cheers! But, I'm no expert.

[Inkleg]

We are trying to clarify the CO2 Volumes.

In BeerSmith's and other residual CO2 calculators we have been putting in the highest reading found on the temp strip during fermentation.

We cold crash and so bottling day temps would be around 45-50F but then the beer sits on a conditioning shelf/storage shelf that stays about 80F in summer so what temp should we put in the calculator?

Put in the highest temperature that was reached during fermentation. If you fermented at 68* and then cold crashed to 45*, you would put 68* in the calculator for your priming.

[RickBeer]

I would recommend that you switch to batch priming going forward. If you still get bottle bombs from that, then you've eliminated overcarbing from the sugar cube as a reason.

I assume you've checked the cubes by weighing some and verified their individual weight is roughly the same as the box says, since you're so exact in your brewing.

I can't imagine based on what you posted that sanitation is your issue. I agree it is likely weak bottles, but the only way to know is to eliminate variables as you are doing. Given your supply of LBKs, go with batch priming for now.

As far as the amount of sugar, I'm not a style guy (that doesn't mean I'm not stylish ). What I mean by that is that I've been putting in 65 grams of table sugar in every 2.13 gallon batch EXCEPT for the darker beers (Munton's Nut Brown, Sticky Wicket, Blue Moon which have gotten less). I've gotten as low as 50 grams in a 2.13 gallon batch. I can't imagine that over carbing is your issue.

Therefore - it's either bad bottles or bottles damaged by the wing capper. I've only used a bench capper, so I can't shed any light on that. My bottles are from varied brands including Sam Adams, Shorts, and others. I did end up with a 6 pack of bottles that felt very thin and I tossed those (couldn't recycle them).

I keep my bottles in the waterproof tub for at least 3 weeks. I store them in the basement that never gets above 70. But again, I can't imagine that storing them at 80 degrees makes them explode. I believe that if you carb to a level, i.e. 68 because you ferment at that, and the temp goes UP it actually LOWERS the level of carb in the beer - which is why if you play with Screwy's calculator you'll see that the higher the temp the MORE sugar it needs. So if the bottle carbs warmer, you get LESS carbonation, not more.

See how much sugar you are adding. If it's 5 grams or less per bottle, sugar isn't the issue.

[Brewbirds]

Hey Rick, yes I did weigh them on my hop scale and they range from 2.2 to 2.4 grams each. The 2.2g ones are usually the ones that get knocked around a bit so a corner is missing or rubbed off. and I don't even use them to bottle with I just get a new box of cubes and use those for tea etc. so I guess it would average to 2.3 g per bottle.

Sad about the bottles too because until I found the old Borg I'd never heard of Sierra Nevada and read that those were good for re-using so I bought some and loved that beer. Now I have more of those than any other bottle.

My recycle truck driver is going to freak out next time he stops here.

I guess I'll save up for a bench capper. I got the 2 wing cappers in some of my Craig's List loot practically free.

[mashani]

FWIW, I use the 2.4g Dominos Dot sugar cubes when I bottle prime instead of batch prime - I do both depending on how picky I am about CO2 volume for whatever I'm bottling. I've always gotten pretty consistent carb levels when using them, any differences are really insignificant - not enough that I would ever expect a gusher or a bomb to occur because of it. I save the ones with the corners knocked off for when I'm bottling an English beer and I want the carb levels a bit lower.

[mrblase]

I use the 2.4g Dominos Dot sugar cubes when I bottle prime instead of batch prime

Just a comment about sugar cubes, which I've used exclusively for 40 plus cases of beer with very good results. Domino Dots are listed as 2.4 grams on the carton. When we were on vacation last April my wife went shopping and she bought sugar for her coffee. She always buys Dominos Dots as she knows that I'll use the unused portion for my priming. Next time I bottled I got the open box that she had purchased and started to use them. I normally use 4 dots in a 1 litter bottle and 1 in a 12 ounce bottle. What I noticed, after a while, was that the size of these dots seemed larger and sure enough when I checked the box it said they were 3.6 grams per cube. 50% larger! You might want to double check that you are using the smaller dots.

Interestingly we cannot find the larger dots in any of the stores in our area of Connecticut. The larger ones were purchased in a southern state. Domino's might be making different sizes for different geographies.

[mashani]

Yes, mblase is correct - there are 2 different kinds of Dominos dots cubes. I can actually get both kinds here. There are also "tablet" shaped ones, but I've never looked at them closely. You do need to be aware of which kind you are using. If your bottling in 12ozers though, I would think the bigger dots would be difficult to get into the bottle.

I've picked up the bigger ones when I wanted to play with CO2 volumes a bit more in my 740ML pets. IE 1 big dot and 1 small dot vs. 2 or 3 small dots.