I brewed a batch of Rye Pale in June, kegged it July 1st, put it on CO2 in the basement. I didn't have room for it on tap until September 13. I tried it on the 15th, and for a few days after. It wasn't good. I decided that I had made a mistake, fermented too warm or allowed a slight infection. I've bought some craft beer since then .
Today we had family coming over for football and dinner. I bought Sam Adams, had a few bottles of other around. I decided to try the Rye again...much better. Still suspicious, I asked Jane to try it. She tells me straight, and she didn't like it two weeks ago, but she liked it now. I let it warm up a bit -still good. So, what's the deal? I thought that two months in the basement would be plenty of time. The fridge should only need to chill it. Yet it definitely improved. Anyone else experience this? Or can explain it?
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
John Sand wrote:I brewed a batch of Rye Pale in June, kegged it July 1st, put it on CO2 in the basement. I didn't have room for it on tap until September 13. I tried it on the 15th, and for a few days after. It wasn't good. I decided that I had made a mistake, fermented too warm or allowed a slight infection. I've bought some craft beer since then .
Today we had family coming over for football and dinner. I bought Sam Adams, had a few bottles of other around. I decided to try the Rye again...much better. Still suspicious, I asked Jane to try it. She tells me straight, and she didn't like it two weeks ago, but she liked it now. I let it warm up a bit -still good. So, what's the deal? I thought that two months in the basement would be plenty of time. The fridge should only need to chill it. Yet it definitely improved. Anyone else experience this? Or can explain it?
A lot of people think cold conditioning doesn't do much, if anything, because the yeast go to sleep. But the yeast don't go completely to sleep, they just slow easy down. And there are other changes that take place that don't rely on the yeast.
Just spit balling here. Perhaps the basement was just cool enough to require a slightly longer conditioning period. We live in very different climates so I have no knowledge on how cool or warm y'all have been.
"Filled with mingled cream and amber
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chambers of my brain
-- Quaintest thoughts -- Queerest fancies
Come to life and fade away;
Who cares how time advances?
I am drinking ale today."
Thanks.
The basement was no cooler than the upper 60s, and reached near 80. I guess there are other changes, thinking now of pumpkin spice beer that takes time to age, even soup or chili that improves in the fridge overnight.
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
John Sand wrote:Thanks.
even soup or chili that improves in the fridge overnight.
Oh well temp ain't it. True, but they don't depend on a live thing that has a lot to do with the flavor. In chili's case it more a matter of allowing the different flavors time to blend and (assuming chili "con" what ever) allowing the meat and beans to better absorb the flavors. I can't explain it better than that. Just something inside me says, it ain't quite the same thing.
"Filled with mingled cream and amber
I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
Through the chambers of my brain
-- Quaintest thoughts -- Queerest fancies
Come to life and fade away;
Who cares how time advances?
I am drinking ale today."
No, it ain't quite the same thing, but I'm of the opinion that the various flavors in the malts do benefit from extended warm conditioning, regardless of the yeast activity.
I always felt they were two different animals (warm conditioning vs cold). I think of it this way...this is why they lager american lagers, right? They do not sit warm for extended periods of time. That cold conditioning, (yeast action aside or not) gives the beer a chance to come together, drop clear, tannins, polyphenols, fermentation by products, excess yeast...all that drops out of suspension. I do not believe that happens much or nearly as well or fast as it does with cold conditioning. 2 weeks in the fridge will do a lot for almost any beer. I haven't had much experience with warm conditioning.
Interesting. I think you make a good point MadB. While I find that yeast will drop out warm in the bottle or fermenter over time, that doesn't mean that everything else does. I think Dave is right also, yeast action or not, something is occurring. Anyway, the beer clearly improved in the fridge. I have only recently started carbing my beer warm, after buying a spare CO2 bottle. In the past I have carbed in the fridge, taking a week or so. I thought that the warm carbed beer would require only chilling, which appears not to be the case. Of possible relevance is the full pound of honey malt in this recipe, more than most. I have made this successfully before, others too. The unpleasant part of it originally was sweet like over-ripe fruit, not good at all. That leading into the hop finish made it nasty. The whole thing seems more mellow now, a good transition.
This discussion helps me, maybe someone else in the future, thanks. And I have homebrew to drink!
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
I think like all things - pretty much it just depends. I don't cold condition beers often. Mostly, they just hang out in a 55-65 degreeish area of my basement. That said, there are some types of beer that I like better after extended cold conditioning.
I guess it just depends on if what drops out of suspension contains a flavor component you don't want and brings it below your taste threshold, vs. something the yeast will clean up, vs. it drops out a flavor component that you do want (IE sometimes if I leave one of my English beers in the fridge too long they turn a bit bland compared to ones I leave warm, so I rarely cold condition them).
Some of the things that may get dropped out, IE the above mentioned polyphenols for example, are actually good for you and make beer more of a "food". And I treat beer as food, which is why I don't filter, rarely cold crash, etc. I'm not worried about it being slightly hazy if what's making it hazy is nutritious. It's a big part of why I homebrew, vs. buy filtered commercial beer.
Esters are a type of hydrolyzable tannin that can form bonds with polyphenols, so when you cold condition you can drop out some of the esters too. This is a good thing if you don't want them. But IE in the abovementioned scenario of some of my English beers, if the stone fruit esters drop out, then maybe they get bland. But say in a lager, this would potentially be a good thing.
Good information.
As an aside, I don't cold crash or fine but most of my beers are completely clear. It's one of the ways I judge that they are finished.
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
John we are not kegging and cold crash all batches before we bottle but the beers spent all of the time carbing and conditioning at whatever temp the beer closet was at the time we stored them. They only went into the fridge for testing ( a bottle at a time) or consumption (chilling a supply from the pipeline) and we never had had a brew that was "bad" on first taste but got better BECAUSE it was in the fridge longer that I can thank of and I cannot recall another conversation on the Borg.
Point is I wonder if the warm vs. cold conditioning in your situation has to do with how the beer "lives" in a keg vs. a bottle in the same environment. Does 12 ounces of beer in glass behave the same way 5 gallons (???) of kegged beer does?
Thanks BB, it's a good point. I don't recall any bottles improving in the fridge except for carbonation becoming finer.
I may remain confused, but at least I have beer!
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
John Sand wrote:Thanks BB, it's a good point. I don't recall any bottles improving in the fridge except for carbonation becoming finer.
I may remain confused, but at least I have beer!
Out of curiosity, how often have you tried cold conditioning for more than a week or two?
I never thought it was useful until I had some beer in the fridge before getting called out of town unexpectedly. After that, I became a firm believer in cold conditioning.
Last edited by bpgreen on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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