Adding fruit/juice???

[Ibasterd]

Hey all. I've got a question that may have been covered, but I can't figure out the best way to approach this. I am planning an IPA. More specifically I'm trying to recreate Kona Brewing's Hanalei Island IPA. It is a really tropical IPA that has a flavor and aroma profile of POG. POG is a hawaian fruit drink featuring a blend of passionfruit, orange and guava.

I've found a recipe that should be close using Millennium, Azacca, and Galaxy hops. Most of the flavor/aroma profile should come from them, but from what I've read, they are also using passionfruit, orange and guava concentrate as an adjunct. If one were to use real fruit or juice, when and where is the best place to use them. I've always believed that it is difficult to get any actual fruit flavor or aroma from fruit as it just ferments out leaving a dry, high ABV beer. I'm guessing that racking onto fruit in a secondary would be the way to go, but is it really worth it?

Anyone with experience, successfully brewing with fruit, please share. Phill, I'm thinking of you...

[FedoraDave]

I imagine Phil would be able to provide more useful input, but as far as the orange goes, I've had very good results, both with my Lime Cerveza and my Sunbonnet Lemon Wheat, by adding the zest from the fresh fruit about a week before bottling. Sort of a dry hop, but with citrus zest.

I would think regardless of how you add the fruit, you'll be best off by waiting until primary fermentation is done.

[RickBeer]

No matter when you add during fermentation, the sugars will ferment out. Therefore, you focus on the aroma that remains, and any taste that is provided by non-sugars. That's why zest works good for oranges and lemons, and possibly grapefruit if you were so inclined. No matter when you add fruit juice, all that sugar will be gone, so you need to see how much pure fruit juice is in it, and then understand what those fruits might taste like without sugars.

I mostly gave up on fruit, and add LorAnn oils at time of drinking (1-2 drops in a glass). I just did an Apricot wheat, breaking my own rules, adding a can of apricots a week before bottling. Not a lot of strong flavor, will probably add LorAnn in my glass.

[mashani]

You can counter the fermenting out of all the sugars (leaving so little residual sweetness that the fruit no longer seems like what it should be) by adding something like honey malt or lactose or a light crystal like Cara 8 or C10 to give it back some residual sweetness. Also, no reason to mash at a low temperature to dry out your beer west coast style if you are adding a bunch of juice, because that's like adding a bunch of sugar adjunct and will dry out your beer anyways.

My experience (to my tastes at least) is that a bit more residual sweetness then the west coast guys like in their dry piney/grapefruit IPAs is a good thing in beers with more tropical fruity hops and/or actual fruit. Some sweetness makes the fruit "pop". As in actually taste like fruit.

When I make Belgians or Saisons using fruit juices, I simply treat that juice as a replacement for my sugar adjunct, and get good results. The Saison I made last summer with plum juice was wicked awesome and I'm going to do it again.

But it all depends on what you want.

[alb]

What about adding campden tablets to kill the yeast and stop the fermentation, then adding the fruit? Would that work?

[Kealia]

I'm going to go with the easiest approach here: Are you against just pouring some POG into a glass then topping it off with your IPA at drinking time?

I had that beer in Kona last year and it definitely tastes like there is some fresh fruit juice in there.

[mashani]

What about adding campden tablets to kill the yeast and stop the fermentation, then adding the fruit? Would that work?

If your kegging/force carbing. Otherwise would need to let campden wear off and add more yeast to prime it, which would then of course ferment out all the sugar and explode your bottles.

Also impeccable sanitation would be in order, or something else will start fermenting it later (IE the dip tube/backwash scenario that was talked about in some other recent post).

[ScrewyBrewer]

For my Pineapple Pale Ale I added Dole canned pasteurized juice. Racking the fermented beer off of the yeast and dosing it with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfate preserved the pineapple flavor and sweetness. I did however force carbonate the beer and use a beer gun to fill the bottles. But, there were no bottle bombs while the beer was stored at room temperature, which was also something that needed to be prevented.

[Dawg LB Steve]

For my Pineapple Pale Ale I added Dole canned pasteurized juice. Racking the fermented beer off of the yeast and dosing it with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfate preserved the pineapple flavor and sweetness. I did however force carbonate the beer and use a beer gun to fill the bottles. But, there were no bottle bombs while the beer was stored at room temperature, which was also something that needed to be prevented.

And were very good even young, when he sampled in Asheville.

[Ibasterd]

For my Pineapple Pale Ale I added Dole canned pasteurized juice. Racking the fermented beer off of the yeast and dosing it with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfate preserved the pineapple flavor and sweetness. I did however force carbonate the beer and use a beer gun to fill the bottles. But, there were no bottle bombs while the beer was stored at room temperature, which was also something that needed to be prevented.

Screwy, could you elaborate on this? What is the function of dosing with potassium sorbate and metabisulfate. I bottle carb, so don't know how this would affect the process.

[Ibasterd]

Never mind Screwy. I looked it up and I see that it halts fermentation. Would not work with my process.

[ScrewyBrewer]

One prevents yeast cells from multiplying (Potassium Sorbate), the other (potassium metabisulfite) is a stabilizer, it eliminates oxidation.

While the two combined prevent cells from reproducing, and deprive any new cells of oxygen, the process is definitely not suited for bottle carbing.


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