Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculators

[berryman]

Who is using a Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator and which one? I've been using this one for a while but would like to compare it with other ones https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/

[Beer-lord]

I use yeastcalculator.com the most and sometimes mrmalty.com. They've both always worked very well for me. There are lots of other on the web and I think both wyeast and white labs have one on their site as well.

[Inkleg]

This is the one I've been using as of late. I really like the overbuild feature. I use it to make an extra 100 billion yeast cells from each starter for the next starter.

[mashani]

I use the same one you do and have made "better beer faster" doing so then if I was to follow Mr. Malty, which will tell you to pitch less yeast.

The one that Inkleg posted looks good at first glance, I'd just verify that what it calls .75 matches the one your using at .75.

[berryman]

I think back when started with MB, everyone on the forum would say should pitch at least 2 fromunda, and I started doing that and my beer improved, then started using a 11.5 dry or a WL vile or a Wyeast smack and made good beer in the MB fermenter. When I started doing more 5 gal. I kept it the same, and had some good beers but was under-pitching, Now I know better. Why I go to a yeast calculator now and is a lot better.

[HerbMeowing]

... pitch(ed) at least 2 fromunda ... and my beer improved, then started using a 11.5 dry or a WL vile or a Wyeast smack and made good beer in the MB fermenter. When I started doing more 5 gal. I kept it the same, and had some good beers but was under-pitching ...

Been wondering of late if I might could be under-pitching.
What about your brews lead you believe you were under-pitching?

[berryman]

I use the same one you do and have made "better beer faster" doing so then if I was to follow Mr. Malty, which will tell you to pitch less yeast.

Ha, Mash. I won't take the credit for this one, because you posted it a long while back and I have been using it with good success.

[berryman]

Been wondering of late if I might could be under-pitching.
What about your brews lead you believe you were under-pitching?

Well, when doing small batches I was using the said amount, then started experimenting with different yeast and still in the LBK and was giving it a good shot of yeast in 2.13 or 2.50 and started to make better beer at least to my perception. When started doing more 5 gal. it was good but didn't think it was the same and wondered why, I did a couple lagers that were good in the LBK but not as good in 5 gal. When I was told and also thought that I wasn't pitching enough yeast. After that I found some yeast calculators and a lot of them on-line and started going by it and yes, I put more yeast in my beers now, but the end results I think is better....

[mashani]

What about your brews lead you believe you were under-pitching?

In my case, my simplest explanation is that I used to not pitch so much, at most I would have went with Mr. Malty, but then discovered the one from the OP, read all the research that it is based on, and then went ahead and tried what they call 0.75 Pro in a 1.05ish beer, and then what they call 1.0 Pro in a 1.06ish beer even though it sounded like a stupid amount of yeast. And I was just floored by the results.

What I mean by that is right now at those pitch rates, my beer always tastes good right out of the fermenter. Always. I now pitch 0.75 Pro in 1.04-5ish beers, 1.0 Pro in 1.06-7ish beers, and 1.25 Pro in 1.08+ish beers. The only time I step down the pitch rates is if I want banana in a wheat beer or if I know some other ester I want in the mix will get lost if I pitch that much. This is not all esters with all yeast. You have to figure it out by doing it. Banana is the biggest one that will vanish in my experience if you pitch too much.

Even 1.08ish beers have tasted good OUT OF THE FERMENTER (I can't stress this enough) at those pitch rates. I don't brew a lot of them, but when I do, knowing that I can drink them soon instead of waiting for months is cool.

Things that I would have thought I should age for many months, are actually good as soon as they carbonate. Maybe they still improve over time if they are the type of beer where slight oxidation or esters dropping out or slight hop flavors fading makes them better. But for the most part they are good to drink really quickly, even very strong beers. Carbonation of course affects flavor and aroma perception, so the beers do change slightly when they are carbonated. But still, if I wanted to drink flat beer, I could be drinking it right away.

Sometimes the pitch rates sound crazy. IE what they call Pro Brewer 1.25 is like 3 11.5g packs of dry yeast in a 5 gallon batch (this would be for a 1.08+ beer, but still it's a lot). I don't care if it makes "better beer faster". And that's what it has done for me. The way I do it, it doesn't "cost more" beyond the price of a little bit of DME, I just spin up a starter of whatever size I need.

The beers also are drinkable much sooner with bottle carbonation. Instead of having to wait 4 weeks or even 6 weeks due to me being an acetaldehyde super taster, I have found that I can pop open stuff as early as 2 weeks and not taste any. I am assuming because of more healthy yeast that remains in suspension at bottling time so everything happens faster.

My pipeline is actually smaller now then it was before, because before it was about aging things. I don't have to age things so much anymore, so as long as I can keep my brewing going, I don't need to maintain as big of a pipeline.

So that's my story.

If you would dig up posts on the old Mr. Beer forum I would have probably argued against pitching so much yeast saying it was silly and the yeast would still just grow in the beer anyways (it will, that's true). But for whatever reason if you can pitch enough so that you only get 2 or 3 generations of growth (instead of 4 or 6 or 8 or 12 or maybe even more with old Mr. Beer puny yeast packs), then it just almost always makes better beer faster.

So I changed my tune. Old dogs can learn new tricks.

[John Sand]

Very interesting, thank you all for the input. Mashani, that was a very thorough explanation. I only use a pitch calculator when re-pitching yeast. For dry yeast I use the manufacturer's recommendation. But I also generally leave the beer three weeks to ferment, one week to pressure carb in the keg. Some styles do want some aging also. I am starting to pay more attention to pitch rates in Belgians for desired flavor variations.

[Wings_Fan_In_KC]

Wow! That is awesome info there and exactly why I always valued this forum and its members. I going to have to read up on this becasue having great tasting brews right out of the fermenter is something I think we'd all aspire to.

[mashani]

For dry yeast I use the manufacturer's recommendation.

If you look at the detailed explanation of stuff on the pitch rate calculator in the OP, you will find interesting things about dry yeast and manufacturer recommendations.

[ScrewyBrewer]

For two years now I've been pitching 2 White Labs Pure-Pitch packets per 5 gallon batch into 5% to 6.5% ABV Ales. Fortunately for me my LHBS moves a lot of yeast and they keep it refrigerated. The age of the yeast packets are usually no more than a month or two old. With my club discount the packets cost $6.95 each and save me the time and money of making a starter. I found that a 200 billion cell pitch of fresh yeast, and a minute to oxygenate the wort followed by good temperature control makes all the difference.

A typical batch of my beer seldom goes two weeks from kettle to keg. I brewed a hazy IPA two Saturdays ago. That Wednesday it was dry hopped with six ounces of bagged pellet hops. After soaking for seven days I kegged the beer. I put the kegs in the refrigerator, cranked the Co2 regulator up to 35 psi and 30 hours later served it to my guests.

[mashani]

FWIW, 200 billion cells is what would work out in the OP calculator as just about perfect at "Pro Brewer 0.75" in a mid 1.05s beer, and that would be considered pretty good by that calculator for up to 1.06 beers at the "0.75" pitch rate. I think it is only just a tad short of what it would suggest in a 1.06 beer at that rate. IE I think Mr. Malty would say you should pitch around 220 billion for a 1.06 beer, and I think the the OP "Pro Brewer 0.75" would suggestion 230 billion. The fact that you are using fresh yeast and doing a full 1 minute oxidation of your wort likely more then makes up for that little bit as you will get fast and easy growth phases with more very happy (viable) daugher cells per phase. And that you are keeping your yeast at a temperature they like.

Around 1.07 is where the calculators get a lot further apart, as Mr. Malty would still using the ratios similar to the "0.75" type calculations, but the OP calculator would suggest that you might want to think about switching to what they call "Pro Brewer 1.0" by the time you are at 1.07. IE Mr. Malty would suggest something like 250 billion, and the OP calculator at "Pro Brewer 1.0" would suggest more like 350 billion.

All that aside, I think what is most important for people to digest based on the findings of the folks who made that calculator is that 1 dry pack of yeast at "0.75" calculations is actually perfect for a 1.05ish 3 gallon batch, and not so much for a 5.5 gallon batch.

So typically these days, I am pitching a full 11.5g pack into my 3 gallon 1.05ish beers, or 2.5 gallon 1.06ish beers when I am using dry yeast and no starter.

The documentation on that page explains why, but the short answer is "yeast packs lie".

[Banjo-guy]

I find these yeast calculators hard to use when reusing yeast. I have no way of knowing how many cells I have when using washed or reclaimed yeast. How dense is my yeast? Exactly how much is in my mason jar? Because those two properties of the yeast are at best an estimate how good is the output from the calculators?
New yeast packs are another story. There you are dealing with known quantities.