My friend’s beer is something I really don’t like.

[Banjo-guy]

I spent the evening at a friend’s house. I introduced him to Mr Beer brewing 3-4 yeas ago. He is the exact opposite type of brewer from me.
Every beer he brought out was strange spice or vegetable beer. His process is to double whatever HME that Mr Beer sells and add spices to that. All that I can taste is clove,all spice etc...
One beer that I remember drinking was a 2.5 gallon batch. He used two HME stout packs,Saaz hops,clove,orange peel and ginger. Nothing is measured. Every beer was a gusher and he bottles from the primary. His next beer will have carrots added. Nothing is measured or temperature controlled.
I’m no beer snob but it’s really hard to drink beer all night and pretend that you like something when you really don’t like it at all. Of course I said the beer tasted great.
To top it off I have a headache from all of the drinking.

He is having a ball brewing and loves his beer. That’s all that really matters right?

[John Sand]

That's hard to handle. The only thing I can think of right away is to say that you don't like fruit or spice beer, and bring some of your own.
Take two aspirin and good luck.

[BlackDuck]

Yea, that's tough. I'm not sure if I could drink that stuff either. Was the beer just not to your taste? Or could you pick up other off flavors that point to other problems?

[MadBrewer]

The flip side is he is having a good time and enjoys making his beer but yeah even then there is always a balance needed to everything we do. I knew a guy from another forum that would just wing a lot of his brewing but he did it well. He would just put together some base malts a handful of this and a pinch of that and enjoy seeing how it all came together but he had otherwise standard habits and good brewing practices. The spice, fruit and other exotic beers have to be done well to be enjoyable for me. Maybe bring over some of your stuff, let him try it out get him talking about brewing something more straight forward and see how it goes.

I made a Pumpkin Ale once, the only one I ever made and it came out real nice actually. A BMC friend wanted to try it and said it tasted like a candle and was discussed. Another time I made an Oak aged Bourbon Vanilla Porter which was also pretty nice and another friend said it tasted like tree bark and Banana?

It leads me to mention Dodfish Head, I haven't had another of their beers aside from the IPA's but they are always making some Frankenstein beer.

[Banjo-guy]

Yea, that's tough. I'm not sure if I could drink that stuff either. Was the beer just not to your taste? Or could you pick up other off flavors that point to other problems?

There’s so much going on in his beers that they all are just a big spicy muddle. I like things to be more subtle. Most of the beers have a sour quality and are over carbonated. They all gush and are cloudy. I have have no idea how seriously he takes sanitation.
I’m very obsessive about measuring. I really spend a lot of time researching recipes. I treat my water, pay attention to oxidation, pitching rates fermentation temperature... I’m not saying my way is the way but if the beers my friend makes are really not good it’s hard to bite my tongue.

[Banjo-guy]

It leads me to mention Dodfish Head, I haven't had another of their beers aside from the IPA's but they are always making some Frankenstein beer.

I really don’t like spice beers.
My wife and I took a B and B vacation last summer. ( Beers and Birds,she is a birder) We hit Dogfish Head and it was one of the best brewery stops I’ve ever been to. They do unusual beers in a thoughtful and interesting way. There is also no charge for the tastings. That’s a beer tour that I highly recommended.

[Wings_Fan_In_KC]

Banjo, man, that has to be rough. I can't stand any beer that has allspice or ginger or cloves or any of the things that go into "winter" beers. Ugh. But that's just me. Anyway, if he likes it and is having fun then I guess he's in his happy place. Just take some of your own over (if you don't already) and try to drink more of your own!!

[FedoraDave]

I think you need to be honest but tactful, which is a fine line to walk. If you don't like spiced beers, at least that provides you an out for not drinking his. But I find it difficult to believe that he thinks his beer is good and his process is okay if every bottle is a gusher and is muddy-looking. That may open up some dialogue about his process, his research (which is probably non-existant), and what he expects from his own beer. That could lead to some gentle suggestions from you about how to refine things.

Good luck.

[Wings_Fan_In_KC]

I think you need to be honest but tactful, which is a fine line to walk. If you don't like spiced beers, at least that provides you an out for not drinking his. But I find it difficult to believe that he thinks his beer is good and his process is okay if every bottle is a gusher and is muddy-looking. That may open up some dialogue about his process, his research (which is probably non-existant), and what he expects from his own beer. That could lead to some gentle suggestions from you about how to refine things.

Good luck.

+1

[FedoraDave]

I would add that recipe formulation is one of the fun things about this hobby for me. But I also recognize that brewing is more like baking than it is like savory cooking.

If you give me a slab of meat, I can go through the spice cabinet and put together some nice seasonings for it, without measuring. I never make the same dish twice, but they're all tasty.

But my wife bakes awesome cookies, and she's spent years refining the recipe's measurements. They have to be exact measurements, or the cookies won't turn out the same, and consistency is key.

Brewing is like that. I once took an extract IPA recipe I'd come up with, and added some darker crystal grains to it and came up with a whole new beer. Same with an amber ale I turned into an amber lager. The yeast (and the process) made all the difference, even though the grain bills and hop bills are identical.

I'm not sure your friend understands this, and he may be approaching his brewing the way he approaches a London Broil he plans to grill for dinner.

[Banjo-guy]

I think you are right that he thinks of brewing like cooking. I’ve always heard that cooking is more forgiving than baking. Brewing to baking is a good analogy.


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[FedoraDave]

It's not as if you can't make good beer by the seat of your pants, providing you have a good grounding in the grains and hops. I don't want to sound as if I'm bragging (and I would bet money that a lot of the Borg could say what I'm about to say), but I could probably walk into my LHBS, ask for a few types of grains in certain measurements, pick out some hops, and choose a yeast for it, and wind up with a more-than-decent beer. It might not be an award-winner, and it might not even fit into any strict style, but it would be a pretty darn good beer.

Since your friend has only used HMEs, from what you say, he doesn't have the experience with grains and hops and recipe formulation that people have who have formulated recipes, researched styles, etc., for a few years. And tossing some spices into the wort to add some flavor, or whatever he's looking to add, is not equivalent to rummaging around the spice rack to season some chicken thighs. And even rummaging around to season chicken is miles away from cooking a four-star cordon bleu.

But your comment about cooking being more forgiving than baking is spot-on accurate. Baking relies more on chemistry than savory cooking does; it's a lot tougher to wing it and have it come out right.

[Kealia]

My two cents is to be honest - mostly.
Tell him that you don't care for spiced beers at all and that it is nothing against his beers specifically. If he wants to share with you, maybe he'll try to brew something you do like.
If he doesn't, then you don't have to drink it.

Not everybody agrees, but I would rather a friend tell me something honest up front, rather than finding out later. In this case, I'd hate to find out that a friend said he liked my beers and had been choking them down from the beginning.

A few months ago I rebrewed a recipe for an Amber that I love and others here have brewed it, tweaked it and loved it, too. I sent a few out to the guys here that I trade with and the response was basically, "what happened to this batch of Levitation? It's not the same and is pretty 'meh' compared to other batches."

I never could determine what happened to that batch but it confirmed that I could trust the input I was getting.

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[BlackDuck]

I have no problems approaching this fine gentlemen with an attempt at a conversation about how he might improve his beers. Hitting on the fact that gushers are not normal. And offering help...IF he wants it!!

But as I read all these comments, we are all opineing about a guy that only one of us here (Banjo-guy) knows. It may be that this guy really doesn't give two sheets about the process like we all do. He might be in it just to have a little fun, make a quick batch, and drink it. Maybe he doesn't care that they are gushers. Maybe he doesn't care about making beer that matches a particular style. Maybe he doesn't care about doing research and tryng to get it "right". I could go on. And if all this is the case, well then, so be it. I bet he's a pretty cool dude, and if the way he is doing it is the way he wants to do it (no matter the results), then he should keep doing it.

[Banjo-guy]

I have no problems approaching this fine gentlemen with an attempt at a conversation about how he might improve his beers. Hitting on the fact that gushers are not normal. And offering help...IF he wants it!!

But as I read all these comments, we are all opineing about a guy that only one of us here (Banjo-guy) knows. It may be that this guy really doesn't give two sheets about the process like we all do. He might be in it just to have a little fun, make a quick batch, and drink it. Maybe he doesn't care that they are gushers. Maybe he doesn't care about making beer that matches a particular style. Maybe he doesn't care about doing research and tryng to get it "right". I could go on. And if all this is the case, well then, so be it. I bet he's a pretty cool dude, and if the way he is doing it is the way he wants to do it (no matter the results), then he should keep doing it.

That pretty much nails it. I really don’t want to rain on his parade. I just don’t want to drink his beers.


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