Saison 1st Try Ever

[BB2]

Does anyone see any glaring issues here? Sorry about glitchy formatting.
What flavor profiles should we expect if fermenting at or above 80F, or should we attempt to keep in lower temperature ice chest?

Thanks, Andy

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Brewer: Brewbirds
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
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Boil Size: 1.63 gal
Post Boil Volume: 1.02 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 2.69 gal
Bottling Volume: 2.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 9.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 71.59 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 71.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 29.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 9.8 %
6.0 oz Wheat, Red with 1/3 german pils (2.5 SR Grain 3 7.3 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.9 %
0.18 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 14.0 IBUs
0.16 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 6 9.2 IBUs
0.14 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 3.8 IBUs
0.25 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 9 -
0.5 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand #Belgium) Yeast 10 -
0.3 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 m Yeast 11 -
1 lbs Wheat Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 12 19.5 %
8.0 oz Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 13 9.8 %
1 lbs Piloncillo (20.0 SRM) Sugar 14 19.5 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5 lbs 2.0 oz
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Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.25 qt of water at 159.2 F 148.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 1 steps (Drain mash tun, ) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
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Ignore sparge instruction, dip grainbag in kettle topup water.
Batch size for 1 case 12 oz. SMIEBB, No Secondary, Bottle Priming w/ mini cubes
Partial Mash, Stepping IBUs, Late LBK Sugar feed and yeast @ 1.020
Note using Nottingham vs champagne yeast.

9/xx/13 LBK# xx 2.69 gals

Grainbag 2.62 lb (24 oz Belg Plis malt, 8 oz flaked wheat, 4 oz carapil, 4 oz red wheat, 2 oz German Pilsner) Est absorb .32 gals
Note: odd lot grains intentional - supply question
Mash in 13 cups (.81 gals) 75min@148F Est gravity 1.138
NOTE Mash in xxF/out / ACTUAL
ADD 4.5 qts H2O. Est vol 1.62 gals pbg = 1.042
BOIL 5 grams NW BREWER@ 60 min; 4.5 grams @ 40; 4 grams @ 20;

ADD Whirlfloc, yeast nutrient @ 10 min
ADD 1 lb Wheat, .5 lb Amber LME @ 0 min

NOTE EST VOL = 1.01 , GRAV = 1.12 ACTUAL = xx
TOP OFF LBK # XX 1.44 gals (5.75 qts) , leaving room for 1 qt tb added primary.
NOTE EST VOL 2.45 GALS, OG 1.050 ACTUAL = xx
BIGNOTE BS WILL SHOW OG INCORRECTLY AS 1.068
ADD @ gravity1.020: Melt 1 lb piloncillo in 1 qt water & reydrate 1/2 Nottingham. (added og = 16 brewers pts, increase)
NOTE BS cannot do this calculation for FG/ABV also misreports grainbill wt.
BIGNOTE Final FG must read below 1.005 at bottling to avoid bottle bomb.
NOTE True Est Vol=2.69 gal, OG=1.062 FG=1.008 abv=7.1%
9/XX/13 Dry pitch @ xxF, OG = xx
DANSTAR BELLE SAISON Min Temperature range 63F Max ?? Ideal under 77??
9/xx/13 fg = xx Coldcrash
NOTE Bottle prime .48 tspn per 12 oz table sugar.
9/xx/13 xx 12 oz

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
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[mashani]

What's the Nottingham for? Take it out is my opinion.

The Bella is ok at 80, but I'd start fermentation in upper 60s or lower 70s and then let it free rise into the 80s vs. hold it there the entire time. It does not need to be in the 80s to finish, it's not like Belgian Saison.

[BigPapaG]

Howdy Andy!

Overall it looks good, albeit a bit complex... But that's ok.

There's a good amount of wheat in there, but that's ok too!

I don't think you will need the Notty unless you are just trying to use it up.
That Belle Saison is a monster and with a half pound of sugar in there and a light body mash, it should chew right through it and will dry it out nicely. Gonna bet you hit 1.004 without much trouble.

I agree with mashani on the yeast temps also!

Flavor should be light wheat, northern brewer and some tart and spicy from the yeast.

Might be a little dark at 9 SRM... That would be from the Amber LME but it's ok anyway...

I would think about a flavor and aroma addition of something floral or fruity...Hallertau, Amarillo, or even EKG... Whatever you have. Shoot for about 25 IBU as the yeast will present a bit toward the overall perception of bitterness, especially if you shoot for a slightly higher carbonation than usual.

Some orange zest at T-10 min. could be nice, or some sweet or bitter orange peel if you have it.

If you think you might like a peppery finish, a small amount (half gram) of Grains of Paradise at T-10 could work too...

All suggestions though, brewed as is it would be fine also!

Brew on brother!

[Brewbirds]

What's the Nottingham for? Take it out is my opinion.

The Bella is ok at 80, but I'd start fermentation in upper 60s or lower 70s and then let it free rise into the 80s vs. hold it there the entire time. It does not need to be in the 80s to finish, it's not like Belgian Saison.

BB2 stepped away from his computer. He says we are feeding the poincillo (brown sugar) which is a gravity of 1.016 into 2.45 gallons of wort at 1.020 and the purpose of the Nottingham is to get the gravity down to 1.005.

Reading BigPapa's post while typing this so if the Belle Saison will get the gravity down we won't use the Notty.

He is going to need to tweek this a bit because I just checked and Poincillo is only 8 ounces not a pound. We have a bunch of priming sugar will that work?

[BigPapaG]

8 ounces of sugar should be fine... It's like 19.5% of the whole...

My brain read 'pound' as it was translating to a five gallon recipe!

Original response corrected...

[Gymrat]

From what I understand Saison yeast will take the gravity down further than Nottingham will.

[mashani]

Yeah the Nottigham won't do jack except muddle up the flavors. Bella Saison has never finished above 1.005 for me on it's own, mostly it's finished 1.002 or 1.003 when I used sugar. It's just like Wyeast French Saison, it's a monster.

[Brewbirds]

Thanks guys.

One other question I forgot to ask; can I do just one feeding with only 8 ounces of sugar? I don't like opening the LBK but will if multiple feedings are better.

[mashani]

I would say one is fine.

[Brewbirds]

Okay well I just got BB2's Saison brewed. Waiting for some top off water to cool in the freezer so I can pitch in the upper sixties it is at 72F now. BB2 thinks I'm supposed to hold it in the 70's for a couple of days and then let it free rise but I'm not seeing that in your posts; I'm seeing pitch there and then let it go.

Also when I feed the sugar will I need to do anything about temps going up when the yeast start munching it?

And we had a mini argument because I thought that you want a 90 minute boil for all pilsen malt for DMS issues; he won with a 60 minute boil but I'm sure I read that somewhere.


Thanks to all my brothers for chipping and helping us brew a new beer style.

[philm00x]

Pilsner malt, because it is so lightly kilned is something you'll want to boil for 90 minutes to ensure you boil off DMS precursor, though I have seen a few things online where people didn't have issues doing a 60 minute boil. If you're using Pilsner extract, then the precursor has already been eliminated so you don't have to worry about a 90 minute boil with it. As for the temps, any time the yeast are actively fermenting, there will be heat produced, so you'll want to feed the sugar in steps, or turn down the temp a bit to adjust for the rise in temp when they start to eat.

[mashani]

If I'm reading this right, you went with a 60 minute boil of pils? If so...

Some DMS precursors do get blown off during vigorous fermentation too. So because you might have ended up with more in there then you'd like, I'd consider feeding 2x or even 3x, each time as soon as the krausen starts to drop a bit to keep the fermentation going as crazy as you can for as long as you can. I'd not stress if it gets to 78 or even 80 at these points either.

[Brewbirds]

Okay I'll feed it a few times when the Krausen starts dropping and let the temp rise. Thanks again.

[Brewbirds]

Uh Oh I think I'm in trouble, I let it free rise and the temp strip on the LBK stops at 84 so I don't know how much higher it got.

Also the krausen is starting to fall so I have 8 ounces of the brown sugar Piloncilo in cone form so to get several feedings what water to sugar ratio should I use?

I also have some priming, regular table and light brown sugar as well as some booster if I need more.

I assume I will boil the water and add the sugar then cool in an ice bath?

[mashani]

RE Temps... You will still be fine I believe. It's pretty hard to make bad beer with Saison yeast.

Just dissolve the sugar in as little water as you need to make a light syrup out of it. The yeast will find it don't worry about "stirring it". Yes, you should boil it then cool it to room temp first - especially with the sugar in a cone if it's like the Gur I sometimes use which is not totally dry... although the Gur (date sugar in a cone shape) is awesome it's not pure, there are all sorts of stuff in it, you want to make sure you kill any bugs or wild yeast that lived inside in a damp pocket.