Mash and Boil for 250.00

[berryman]

I have my grain mill @.050 and single crush but do get some fine stuff. I have one more coming up first and this one will be a higher OG then I have been doing lately and am going to push the M&B close to the max.

According to their documentation, 16 lbs is max. I did a little under 14 lbs today, mostly because my first attempt had such poor conversion that I wanted a cushion. If I get the 72% efficiency that I copied from the Williams FB page, I'll have a pretty strong beer (NTTAWWT). A word of warning: With that much grain, the inset thing is HEAVY. That stands to reason, but I was surprised at just how heavy it was.

This next one will be a 15 LB grain bill, the biggest I've done. Most everything so far has been 10-11 lbs but one was 12 lbs. I going with a little thinner mash then what I have been doing, so I will see how close I come to the 1.075 projected with 5.5 gal post boil.

[bpgreen]

I just reread this entire thread.

I'm really psyched to brew my next batch with this, but I have no empty kegs and don't really want to bottle 5 gallons of beer.

Based on things I read on the M&B FB page, I bought a solar pump for recirculation. Maybe that will help with my efficiency.

[mashani]

If I start to do some 5 gallon batches in the thing I might consider getting a solar pump. For now with the 3 gallon ones I'm pretty happy doing the full volume Aussie style BIAB mash as long as I keep getting 70+% efficiency on a regular basis.

I picked up enough grains to do 3 more AG batches. I've gone mad.

[berryman]

Based on things I read on the M&B FB page, I bought a solar pump for recirculation. Maybe that will help with my efficiency.

Also with a pump you can drop it to a lower working height and pump into a fermenter.

[berryman]

I picked up enough grains to do 3 more AG batches. I've gone mad.

I told you, you would like it and I have a hard time waiting until I can brew another batch with this unit. My new system makes brewing so much easier (I can't say faster) but makes great beer. I may need to enlist your help on doing a small full volume batch that will work in a LBK. I have one more big one to do first. Think up a good Belgian recipy to brew that way and with no temp control, that would be fun to try.

[mashani]

So, I bottled the first batch I made with this thing. Remember, it was 1.033 and I used an entire pack of lager yeast (in 3 gallons). It finished at 1.006. So that's 80ish% attenuation and 3.5%ish and 100 calorieish. it tastes amazingly like... a light version of Yuengling. Right out of the fermenter it tastes like that.

Never tried to make something Yuenglingish before, not something I would normally do, but I wanted to keep it simple and look for flaws. We will see when it carbs and laagers, but right now I'm not seeing anything bad that happened due to the no-chill or any other part of the process. Will be good to drink after riding the bike.

EDIT: And now I bottled the Brown Ale I made, which was totally delicious out of the fermenter, I'm gonna like it a lot.

Now I have 2 open fermenters to put more M&B brew into.

[Banjo-guy]

I haven’t been very motivated to brew lately. My M and B is sitting waiting for me. I’ve been preoccupied and burned out brewing an Oatmeal Stout that I’m sending to the NHC competition. I just need a little break and I’m sick of drinking stouts.

I going to brew a few lagers next. It will be nice to have them for the warm weather. I’ll use the M B not the Zymatic.

[mashani]

So FYI, I brewed an AG Irish Red like beer in mine today using the same full volume no-sparge method. At 4.1ish gallons pre-boil I had a measured gravity of 1.022, which temperature adjusted works out to around 1.042 or so. So that works out to right around 75% efficiency with the ~6# of grain I used.

So after boil down to 3.5 gallons that will give me an OG of 1.048 or so.

So yeah, I am pretty happy with using this as an Aussie style BIAB setup for 3 gallon batches, I'll take 74-75% efficiency without bothering with a sparge any day.

I did a 60 minute mash, but for the mashout again set it at 173 instead of 170. That got me 74% last batch (vs 70 first batch) and now 75%. 173 seems to keep the heat above 170 long enough to liquefy the sugars, where set at 170, it almost immediately drops below 170 as soon as the burner kicks off and I stir it.

I am simply setting it at 173, when the burner kicks off stirring it, and then letting it sit for 10 minutes or so until the burner cycles again, then after it kicks off giving it another good stir and then pulling the basket.

I wasn't sure if it was the mashout or the "oops" 75 minute mash last time that got me to 74, but I'm now pretty sure it is the mashout. If it "sticks" for the next few batches in the 74-75% range then I will call it that for sure.

I am sure one day I'll do a 5 gallon batch the "normal" way, but not right now, I'm pretty OK with 74-75% efficiency.

[Banjo-guy]

I finally got to do a second brew on the MB. I brewed a German Pilsner. I had all of the ingredients in hand. I went with 34/70 for the yeast. I think that’s a pretty standard yeast for this beer. Today was perfect time for brewing a lager. I easily got the wort down 55 degrees for pitching. I haven’t brewed many lagers and I am looking forward to a Pilsner after all of the Stouts that I’ve been drinking lately.

I use the MB as a full volume biab. I only brew 2.5 gallon batcehes. I put all of the grain right in the pipe. It’s much easier than using a bag. I had 4.2 gallons ( or somewhere close to that ...I don’t have my notes with me). I missed the pre boil gravity that Beersmith projected. I came in at 1.040 instead of 1.45. The OG was off by a similar amount. I didn’t compensate, I. Don’t mind a lower ABV beer in the warm months that are coming.

My mash temperatures were really off. It was about 50 outside today. I wrapped the MB in a sleeping bag and put a folded towel on the lid for the mash. I wanted a 90 minute mash at 152. I nailed the temperature after dough in but the temperature dropped to as low as 148 and spiked as high as 163. I stirred at least every 15-20 minutes. It’s a drag not being able to hit the mash temperatures that you input.

I love the boil and cleanup part of the MB. It’s very easy to clean and put away.

Does using a pump to circulate the wort during mash give more reliable mash temperatures? I don’t really want to go that route but I might have to. The whole idea for me was to simplify my setup but I do like to tweak things.
It’s hard to know what temperature I mashed at.
The sweet wort tasted good to me so I think I’ll get a good Pilsner out of today’s brew.

[mashani]

Did you switch the burner to 1000 watts for the mash? I've only seen it say it overshot by that much the one time I didn't.

Regardless, the temperature reading on the sensor reads higher then the actual mash is really at when the burner is running and/or has just recently kicked off, but the only way to know what it is perfectly would be to put a probe thermometer through the lid. But I know that the mash really isn't that high, the temperature sensor is down on the base, which is where that extra heat is (it's really not very far from the heating elements) and I think it will "distribute" as it works its way through the mash.

That said, what I have found is that if I switch the burner to 1000 watts during the mash and then I stir it a good bit with my mash paddle as soon as the burner kicks off (that is when I am stirring, not every 10-15 "regardless"), the built in sensor quickly drops the temperature reading right down to be right at what my target mash temperature is supposed to be, and I would assume that it is consistent throughout the whole mash at that point since I just stirred the crap out of it. It will still possibly overshoot a degree or two after stirring if I leave it at 1600 watts, I think because of the residual heat in the burner. But to me that suggests that even if left alone, as the heat works its way up the mash it will equalize somewhat and really the entire mash is probably only cycling through a much smaller temperature range.

Even at 1000 watts though, although it doesn't seem to overshoot as much, it is going to still drop a good bit between cycles regardless, that's just how this thing works. I think the first 10-15 minutes of the mash is the most important, so as long as you strike in and get near your target your in pretty good shape regardless of the fluctuations, and wrapping it in insulation it probably would stay really close for that entire time. If I was going to do any mods to mine at this point it would just be adding an insulating wrap that I can put on / take off easily.

My wort has been good tasting, and my spent grains have been bland and my conversion has been 70, 74, and 75% in the batches I've done, so I know it's "working ok".

I figure if I start to get over attenuated beers due to the temperature drops I can just increase my mash temp a degree or two going forward. But so far it's all worked out within the range I've wanted it to.

I'm not worried about underattenuated beers, because when I stir right after it cycles, I'm sitting right at my mash temps, as long as I keep the burner at 1000 watts.

A pump to recirculate would probably assure that the entire grain bed remains at the same temperature, but it's not going to stop the temperature from dropping a bit, because the burner cycles in a 6 degree range I think. So it is always going to be dropping 6 degrees between cycles.

I don't think the entire mash has dropped 6 degrees if you aren't recirculating. The middle / top of the mash will probably be warmer still.

I think if you recirculate then although you might have more consistent temperatures through the mash, you might actually be cycling the entire mash those 6 degrees. I don't know which is "worse" for sure, but I actually have a feeling that stirring after each cycle probably is actually keeping more of the mash in the right range for more time, then recirculating the whole thing continuously and therefore letting the whole thing drop 6 degrees.

So, I've pretty much decided to RDWHAHB about it as long as the beers turn out like I want. If I am underattenuating I'll just bump my target mash temps up a degree or two. If I am overattenuating, I'll do the opposite, but I see overattenuation more as the potential problem then under, as long as I'm keeping it at 1000 watts and stirring it like I've been.

EDITED a bazillion times for clarity and typos LOL.

[Banjo-guy]

I did use the 600 watt setting when I mashed. If I’m mashing at 152 should I set the temperature lower than that to account for the +/- temperature swing on the MB?
Mashani: I think you are using a long thermometer. How are the temperatures in the middle of the mash?
Stirring quickly brought my mash temperatures close to where I set it but it still took a few minutes to hit 152.

I’ve seen the mods that the brewers on the Facebook group have done. They basically turn the MB into a diy Grainfather. I don’t think I’m going that route.
It would be a fun project to install a PID, pump and recirculating pipe but I don’t think I want to do all of that.

[mashani]

Hey, I edited my post a bunch of times, I meant 1000 watts because you can't set it at 600, only 1000 or 1600... I blathered on about a bunch of other stuff I thought of, so you might want to read it again.

I'd say that if you always find after stirring you are too high then tweak your temps down a degree, if too low then up a degree, but I'd not really stress too much about it as long as your in the right vicinity.

You would have to be getting your entire mash into the 160s for an extended time for it to actually break down the Beta amylase and really screw up the mash. Otherwise as the mash is cooling it's going to become more active again, and the Alpha amylase will slow down again. I think the first 15 minutes or so are the most important because a lot of conversion happens that quickly, so it's more important to hit your strike temp and "get 'r goin" for that timeframe then what happens later.

So the fluctuations aren't the "end of the world" as long as they stay in a range where both enzymes do their thing in about the same overall proportion.

That's why I decided I'm just gonna RHWHAHB and figure out how to tweak my temps a bit as I use it to adjust for whatever happens.

[Banjo-guy]

I meant the lower setting of the two temperatures. I knew what you meant when you said 600W.

I’m not worried about the temperature readings It just bugs me a little to see those high numbers.

[mashani]

I don't think the high readings mean much of anything if you stir it and are immediately close to want you wanted. If you are still a couple of degrees high after stirring, that's when I'd tweak down the temp setting a degree.

Honestly we could probably just ignore it and it would all work out OK, I don't think the high temperature readings are "real" except for a thin layer of wort sitting right on the burner right after it kicks off and that heat will dissipate as it works its way up through the mash.

It would be better if the temperature sensor was somewhere like 8" from the base and away from the heating element. There might be a way to mod that if desired. I know you can get at the thermal sensors electronic component, because Williams sells replacements and instructions of how to swap it out. There may be a way to extend the probe and mount it up on the side of the kettle wall as long as you can seal up the base again. I don't know. If I have to replace the electronics I might decide to experiment, for now I'll just live with it.

EDIT: I think you can also if you really wanted to replace the controller that is built in with a better one. I think some of the people on the FB site have done this. If my controller fries, I might do that one day.

But for me a pump and such is a last resort, more stuff to worry about cleaning and maintaining defeats the purpose for me.

I don't mind stirring the mash when the burner kicks off since I'm brewing right next to where I'm working so I hear it fire up and kick off... I just hop over into the other room and do it. It doesn't seem like "work" or "trouble". And the fact that can boil 4-5 gallons of wort without worrying about a boil over, now that saves me a lot of hassle.

[berryman]

Mash, what you think of using your method but without the mats in the bottom? I want to try this on a small batch but also want it to work. I can't see much difference on the fine stuff that will pass though because the way I have been using this I keep it pretty wet but just with less water, but I do get a nice grain bed going and that keeps most of the fine stuff from passing though.