I discovered something about myself that is sort of sucky

[mashani]

So, I've been using lactic acid in the form of acidulated malt in a lot of beer lately to acidify my mash because for AG my source water needs the PH lowered a bit, especially with light grain bills.

Unfortunately, I am now pretty certain that as little as 2oz of it is actually very detectible for me in a 3 gallon batch of ~1.04something beer, and 4oz of it in bigger beers. In other words I am apparently a lactic acid super taster, because that's not supposed to happen unless using a lot more.

I am luckily not finding it totally offputting, and will be able to drink all these beers since they started off as low IBUs. But it's making my theoretical maibock taste more like a more bitter "double pilsner" with a squeeze of lemon to me. Which although actually more refreshing to drink after a long bike ride, isn't really what I was going for.

And the first light lager I made in the M&B, I'm also noticing it there (it's a bit young at 3 weeks, but it was < 1.04, so I cracked a tester to see). Again it's not "bad", but it's kind of like someone squeezed a bit of lemon juice into it. The good news is other then that, the beer is nice, and it's and crystal clear even though I no-chilled it. It will be really good to drink after a bike ride on a hot day. But the lemon like vibe isn't what I was going for there either.

I'm pretty certain these are not actually infected with lacto, they aren't that sour, they don't taste like a *lacto beer*, and they would not be classified in any sense as a sour. They are just a little bit tart and lemony on the finish to ME. I gave some to a friend and they didn't notice it. That's why I say it's my tastes / ME. But since me is the one who drinks most of the beer I make, I like to cater to me. I'm going to throw one of the English Browns I made in the M&B in the fridge and try tomorrow to be sure, that beer had no acidulated malt, so if it tastes tart then I've got a bug problem, but I don't think it will, I've never had actual lacto problems like that ever before.

I unfortunately just used a hella lot more in the last Kolsch like beer I made in the M&B because beersmith said it needed it and it wasn't above the theoretical taste threshold, so I obey'd beersmith... so that one, at least to me, I am likely going to have something that will seem to be more like one of the sour beers that you can get on the street on a hot summer day in Belgium then a Kolsch coming out of that thing. Luckily I like those, but again, not really what I was going for.

So, does anyone know of a good alternative way of acidifying the mash without adding a bunch of minerals/water salts? Because with my water, which although is chemically decent for many types beers, I can only add so much without totally trashing something else into out of whack territory, and there is no way I can make large PH adjustments with additions like that because of it. So to do that would require me to be building from scratch from RO any light colored beer that I make if I want to get my mash PH into optimal territory for a light beer. Amber/Brown/Dark beers, not so much a problem luckily, it's just the really pale ones that are going to be a bugger. And I don't have an RO filter/system, so I'd either have to buy one, or start buying RO water all the time.

The only way I know as an alternative would be to go totally old school and do an acid rest. That would probably add like an hour or more to my brew day. I could do it but... bleh.

Or, I could just say screw it and try to mash them at a higher PH then I like and see how it turns out I guess.

Anyone have a clue bat?

[John Sand]

No clue, and LI water is very good water for everything. But I would try just using the water straight, or possibly mixing with bottled or filtered water. There are a lot of things about home brewing that are much more flexible than professional brewing.

[BlackDuck]

Instead of investing on An RO system, just use distilled water when you make your light beers. That’s what I do. I buy it by the gallon at about .79 or .89 cents per gallon, so it only adds a few dollars to the cost. Then I add minerals back in. And I use lactic acid and not acid malt. Usually it only takes a few ml of it to get my mash ph down.


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[Beer-lord]

I only paid $115 for my portable RO system and it lasts for 10,000 gallons before you need to change the filters.
I also use lactic acid with usually some gypsum and maybe some other salts depending on the beer. Never used acid malt. I've never had to use more than 2.5 ml of lactic acid in my beers when using other salts.
Some people are just super tasters.

[mashani]

2.5ml of 88% lactic acid in 5g is like 5oz of acidulated malt.

In 3 gallons, that would be roughly like 1.5ml in 3g, or 3oz of Acidulated malt.

So that's still potentially "not good" in my case it seems at least for a low ABV/malt beer.

Maybe it would be ok if I added more crystal malt or something to try to bury it.

I wonder if acetaldehyde super tasters also tend to be lactic acid ones now.

If I went 50/50 with distilled water I could reduce the amount I need by a good bit and be able to work a bit more with the water chemistry to do more on that end, that might be a good option.

[mashani]

So yep, the English Brown I made as the second M&B beer is delicious and does not have this lemon thing going on.

It also didn't have any acidulated malt.

Which is both a good and a bad thing.

[mashani]

Hmm... I might have to take this back maybe/sorta. The light lager I made in the M&B actually exhibits none of the problems I thought I was tasting in it now that I'm drinking a bottle of it on its own. It had 2oz of Acidulated malt in it.

The Maibock, it has something going on with it, and I drank that first before I tried the light lager last time, and it must have messed up my pallet to the point where drinking the lager afterwords, it just made it/everything taste funny. I tried some of that yesterday and it still does taste funny / lemony on the finish. But this doesn't. In fact I like this light lager very much.

The Maibock was a PM and I am wondering if I just totally went whack on the acid addition, IE maybe I calculated it like it was a full mash.

[Beer-lord]

mash, saw this today and thought of this thread. Nothing you already don't know but it might be an interesting read.
http://brulosophy.com/2018/04/23/water- ... t-results/

[Kealia]

That's good to know that maybe there is no issue (other than the Maibock, possibly).
I know my own palette fatigues quickly so if I'm tasting/drinking multiples, I try to go for the one I want to try the most first.
Even on a night at home if I am drinking two beers, I will *plan* out the order so I can maximize my taste/enjoyment of them.

[mashani]

mash, saw this today and thought of this thread. Nothing you already don't know but it might be an interesting read.
http://brulosophy.com/2018/04/23/water- ... t-results/

I have never even though of using phosphoric acid for brewing mash adjustment. I've only ever used lactic acid in some form. I might have to try it sometime *if* the acidulated malt seems to be bothering me. The real test will be the Kolsch I am going to bottle sometime this week. It had a lot more acidulated malt in it then anything I've made so far. If I think that beer is fine, then I don't think the lactic acid will bother me and this was all just a strange bad trip of some sort.

FWIW, I didn't acidify the pilsner enough, the 2oz of acidulated malt was way to little to get my mash PH to where I wanted it. I had my source water profile set up wrong in BeerSmith, so it told me the wrong #, and by the time I figured it out, it was 15 minutes into the mash and I just rolled with it at that point. So this is the beer that I got a good bit less efficiency in then the others, which is why it's a "lite lager" not a "regular lager". (it's still a hell of a lot tastier then any American lite lager though LOL). The ones that I've used more in after it have all had way higher efficiency. So I hope they taste good. If not, then phosphoric acid may very well call my name.