BeerBorg

No complaints and I've no doubt its very good but I wonder if all the podcasts I listen to on my morning walks and gym visits is stopping me for thinking out my hop box. There's been numerous podcasts by sold called experts and medal winners and if I had to guess, 95% don't add anything until 10 minutes and some even don't add hops until flame out. Just like the varying differences in IPA's, pales and every other style of beer, this one is no different.

I eliminated the bittering hop addition to my NE IPA recipe and no one including myself noticed. But the hop schedule includes whirlpooling a lot of hops at flameout until the wort drops to 170F. Which takes ~45 minutes on my brewing setup. And includes a large dry hop addition I've let soak for up to 7 days before cold crashing and kegging. Personally, I like the style and the recipe I've brewed at last count 4 times now. In fact, I plan to tweak the recipe and decrease the amount of hops used to brew my first Pale Ale.

Yeah, when I make very hop forward (flavor/aroma) beers with a bunch of high AAU hops as the late additions, I don't bother anymore with a regular bittering addition, and I don't miss it at all. But I am always doing a long whirlpool/hopstand when I do that too and I start it at high temperatures, so I get lots of AAU extraction, but also put a lid on to keep the aroma from blowing off into my air until the wort cools enough for the vaporized oils to cool and condense back into the wort.

I do this regardless of whether it's technically a NEIPA or not, I just like how the beers come out better this way when I'm looking for the hop flavor/aroma to be strong.

I haven't tried that yet. Have you experienced DMS reforming in the covered wort? That's probably the only reason I have left the cover off during the whirpool.

Hey Screwy, along with mashani, I've never once had DMS form due to a covered pot during a whirlpool or hopstand.

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Yea, I think that once the boil is at least partially over, you're good. From the multitudes of podcasts I've listened to, it seems this is an urban legend. Plus, if you're not using pilsner malt, there's even less of a chance. And with all the hops used, I can't believe any corn tastes could be noticed but I've no experience with it.

@Screwy, as Kealia said, I've never had DMS doing it. I think as long as you do a full boil it's not going to be an issue.

Consider that Aussie no chill people are sealing up boiling wort right out of their pots into air tight containers and not having the problem either, so I think there is a large sample size out there that suggests it's unlikely to be a problem. (note that they do tend to always do a full boil for 60-90 minutes).

@Beer-Lord, FWIW I've slow chilled about a dozen batches now that were based on pilsner malt in the mash and boil (with the lid on obviously) and I've not had a DMS problem yet. I did boil them all for 90 minutes though vs. 60. It is not totally sealed by the lid, I use the fermenter lid with a #11 foam stopper that is meant to plug up large lab flasks. It lets air in/out to prevent a vacuum from forming, but keeps bacteria and wild yeast from getting in. I just sanitize it before use, and the hot steam coming out of the pot for a while after I put it on also does this like an autoclave. I cover the whole thing with foil right off the roll to keep my cats from messing with the stopper.

I will disclaimer a bit: Since my fermenters somewhat freely vent, and I pitch a lot of yeast, I am likely scrubbing pretty much any residual DMS that way too. DMS is very volatile, so it doesn't take much to get it out of there.

Also when I do lagers, I tend to ferment my lagers more like 56-57 degrees, I am likely scrubbing more residual DMS during fermentation then someone who was fermenting in the low upper 40s/low 50s, as my fermentations are a bit quicker and more active.

I have a feeling that it's a much bigger potential problem for people who do pressurized fermentations (IE large commercial brewers trying to capture the CO2 and reduce ester formation). There isn't any place for it to blow off during fermentation in that scenario. So fermentation won't "fix" it for them. That would be my guess to where the "idea" that DMS is a problem came from, because all of our old homebrewer ideas came from things that happen at commercial scale.

@mashini it makes sense the part about commercial breweries. Homebrewing originated based on information taken directly from commercial brewing processes. I've heard homebrewers say they're doing 45-minute boils using Pilsner malt without having DMS flavor in their beer. I will give using a lid during whirlpooling a try on my next batch. The hop spider I use sticks up an inch or two above the top of the kettle so the lid won't keep all the vapors in. But it should keep a lot of vapors from escaping.

Here's my latest attempt at another NEIPA. Some big differences with the use of Maris Otter (I've read many of the best NEIPA's use MO), changed from Vermont yeast to Bootleg Biology NEEPA yeast and kept the hops mostly the same but used cryo hops as well in the dry hopping. The recipe doesn't show it but I also keg hopped with some cryo. It's not been tasted yet other than from the keg so I can't say how it is but that taste was good.


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Any Road Up NEIPA v3
Brewer: Paul
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.81 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.51 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 79.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 36.9 % 0.39 gal
4 lbs Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 2 29.5 % 0.31 gal
2 lbs 3.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 16.1 % 0.17 gal
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 11.1 % 0.12 gal
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5 3.7 % 0.04 gal
6.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.8 % 0.03 gal
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 20.9 IBUs -
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 7.2 IBUs -
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 8.4 IBUs -
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min Hop 10 8.3 IBUs -
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min Hop 11 10.9 IBUs -
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 min Hop 12 12.7 IBUs -
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 Hop 13 11.1 IBUs -
1.0 pkg Bootleg Biology NEEPA Yeast Yeast 14 - -
2.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 12.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs -
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 12.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs -
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs -
1.00 oz Cryo - Citra [25.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs -
1.00 oz Cryo - Mosaic [22.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 9.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 36.22 qt of water at 159.9 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Bringing back and old but good thread, this has been a style I haven't been very interested in until recently. I am thinking of putting together a really simple recipe to experiment more with whirlpool additions/hop stand. Those that have been brewing them, do you guys prefer a mix of Oats & Wheat, have some gone all Oats or all Wheat. Is it better to use malted wheat or flaked? I do not see a whole lot with Caramel malts, that's a hard habit to break but I think a touch of Honey malt would be great. As this is an older thread, what are some more resent opinions and suggestions with the style? I do not want pure orange juice nor do I want it to look like yellowed milk. Some of the nice bright hazy ones look really good...Hazy not murky.

I'm noticing lots of larger breweries use a good amount of pilsner malt while some use all Maris Otter. I sometimes use both malted wheat and flakes but to me, the main difference in this beer is when you add the dry hops. There really should be 2 and the first one should come shortly about day 2 of fermentation with the other followed by about 5 days or so.
I also like what Kveik Hornindal yeast brought to the beer. A bit thinner beer with it but tasty and full of aroma.

If you want just a slight sweet crystal malt vibe with hints of sweet berry and nuts, then I can't say enough good things about Simpsons Golden Naked Oats. You can use them in place of any other kind of oats in a recipe and get that. It will turn out slightly darker if you use them, but I don't mind they are delicious in these kinds of beers as well as pretty much any English beer. They also won't leave as much haze behind as flaked oats would.

I don't like pure OJ/Juice IPAs much either, so I have always made my NEIPAs with a bit of something else piney/earthy/dank in the mix, but some people would not like it (or complain it's not NEIPA enough for them) because of it... but since I make my beer for me, other people who don't like it just leave more for me

MadBrewer wrote:Bringing back and old but good thread, this has been a style I haven't been very interested in until recently.

And neither was I, but wanted to try something new. My results. It was yes orange juice looking and cloudy in the beginning when kegged and tasted really good. After a week or so in the keg didn't look the same but still tasted pretty good, darker and cleared up some. It went down hill fast after that. I really think what others say about brewing this style of beer is oxidation. I did like it, but a lot of work for what it was. Plugged up my spigot on my Mash&boil and plugged up my tap after kegged. Yes I plan on trying again sometime but going to do a few things different.

Might want to try slow chilling in the M&B for this sometime Berryman. The one nice thing I've found with it is that everything compacts down below the spigot, even beers with tons of adjunct and 8oz of commando hops have not clogged my spigot because it all settles down there and compacts into a "gel" of sorts nicely with the 20 hours of slow chilling time. Just don't tip it trying to get more out.

For a NEIPA you just put in all the boil hops @flameout, toss on the lid, plug the hole, cover with foil, and walk away for 20 hours or so. No need for any more bittering then you will get from that, and all the aroma and flavor is preserved because of the lid being on.