BeerBorg

The hydrometer will tell you when the beer is done. The tripel I just bottled went 3.5 weeks in the LBK. A week ago it was close to terminal at 1.014, and then in the course of that week, it finished finally at 1.011.

I guess I'm the mindless one RickBeer was talking about.

I've only done 5 batches so far but hate using all that beer for a hydrometer reading more than twice. (refractometer in my future?)

So generally I'll ferment for 19 - 21 days before I cold crash for 3. Everything really depends on when I start. I hate brewing or bottling on a work night because I don't like to rush.

Most of the time I have Fridays off so if I brew on a Thursday/Friday night I can cold crash 20 days later on a Wednesday/Thursday and bottle 3 days later on a Fri/Sat. Makes for easy planning as well.

You could always sanitize the hydrometer and sample tube real well and then pour the sample back into the fermenter. That way you don't lose any beer

philm00x wrote:You could always sanitize the hydrometer and sample tube real well and then pour the sample back into the fermenter. That way you don't lose any beer

Another way is to leave the beer in the tube (when it gets close to being finished). Next to your fermentation container of choice (so they are at the same temperature) and keep covered with sanitized foil or wrap. The beer in the tube will ferment at the same rate.

A refractometer is not as accurate in the present of alcohol, but can be used.

When I first started with the borg we used to do a satellite bottle thing. You would pour your sample into a water bottle and set the cap on loosely so that C02 could escape. The theory was the bottle would ferment at the same rate as the LBK. Then just keep pouring that sample into your hydrometer tube to see when it stopped dropping.

That is still what I do. Depending on what I see, I will normally check gravity at 7 days at this point. I work hard to get the right amount of yeast pitched, with the proper aeration and ferment at the right temp.

I like to ramp up by a few degrees the last few days, if I can, to help promote a strong finish and cleanup. I take a hydrometer sample when I feel like the beer is ready based on visual clues - which comes with a little practice for sure. Once I have the sample I pour it into a bottle and check it again in 2-3 days. If all looks good and I feel like I did everything right, I will bottle/keg within 14 days (schedule allowing).

IMO, smaller beers (up to the 1.055 range or so) don't need time to condition or clean up if you do everything you can to not produce off flavors in the first place. Proper pitch rates and temps have a lot to do with that.

That all being said, some higher gravity beers, those with complex flavors and even some yeast strains definitely benefit from longer conditioning. At this point in my brewing, I feel like I can get good beer within 10-14 days if not sooner. The last time I brewed the Dead Buy Clone I checked gravity at 5 days (because I was home and bored) and it was done. I gave it 48 hours at a slightly higher temp to clean up and kegged it on day 7.

philm00x wrote:The hydrometer will tell you when the beer is done. The tripel I just bottled went 3.5 weeks in the LBK. A week ago it was close to terminal at 1.014, and then in the course of that week, it finished finally at 1.011.

I have tripel going on right now, and I was thinking 4 possibly 5 weeks in the fermentor. I also have a big wheat beer going to , it's a week behind the tripel . If I let that go 3 weeks I will have to bottle both at the same time.

Can longer in the fermentor effect anything ? I am not sure I want to bottle both on the same day.

If you want to go beyond 3 weeks you really should use a secondary and get the beer off of the yeast cake.

Gymrat wrote:If you want to go beyond 3 weeks you really should use a secondary and get the beer off of the yeast cake.

So that would really be like saying its done after 3 weeks? What does racking to a secondary do? And is it really nesesary

Racking to a secondary gets the beer off of the yeast cake for extended conditioning. It keeps the beer from picking up off flavors from the yeast cake. It doesn't mean the beer is done. I only do it for extended conditioning times with high gravity beers. But regardless of the gravity of the beer, if for some reason you can't package the beer within 3 weeks, I would absolutely get it off the yeast cake for the extra time.

Gymrat wrote:Racking to a secondary gets the beer off of the yeast cake for extended conditioning. It keeps the beer from picking up off flavors from the yeast cake. It doesn't mean the beer is done. I only do it for extended conditioning times with high gravity beers. But regardless of the gravity of the beer, if for some reason you can't package the beer within 3 weeks, I would absolutely get it off the yeast cake for the extra time.

Would conditioning in the bottle achieve the same results?

Yes and no. Yes if you bottle after 2 or 3 weeks in the fermenter the beer continues to condition. And no if you leave the beer on the yeast cake too long the off flavors it picks up from the yeast cake will not condition out. That is the purpose of a secondary, if you don't want to bottle within 3 weeks, the secondary gets the beer off of the yeast cake while you wait.

Now you're asking three questions that are very divisive in the homebrewing community:

1) Is it OK to leave beer on the trub for more than 3 weeks?
2) Is a secondary really neccesary?
3) Is bottle conditioning any better/worse than bulk conditioning in a fermenter?

All three of these questions have people on both sides of the fence that believe their way works for them. So I won't say that there is a "right" answer to any of them. There is only what is right for you.

For example, I have no issues leaving my beer on yeast for 4-5 weeks if my schedule gets crazy. There are those that have left their beer on for months without issue. The threat of autolysis is believed to be somewhat of a myth at this point given the homebrew scale. But there are still those that believe that anything more than 3 weeks is bad and that's how they brew. And it works for them so who can say they are right or wrong?

I don't believe that secondaries are needed unless there are major additives like fruit, or unless you need to age/lager for months at a time. The 'need' for a secondary is related to the above point(s). Again, there are some that use secondaries and make great beer, along with those of us that don't and believe that we too make great beer.

Finally, some believe that aging in bulk provides more benefits that aging in bottles. I disagree. I've tried both and not noticed any difference at all. The argument for aging in bulk is somewhat based on the claim that more yeast = better aging. But to me that doesn't make sense because once you bottle you dilute both the yeast and the volume of beer but the ratio (in my mind) between the two stays relatively the same.

So that's a long winded way of saying that these are answers you'll have to come to on your own young Padwan. While there are some absolutes in brewing (like sanitizing being critically important), there are far more grey areas that each brewer must investigate on his/her own to learn what works for them to produce beer that they like.

I can tell you that even though Gymrat and I disagree on a few process things (like time on the yeast cake), I have a lot of respect for him as a brewer and have no doubts that he produces stellar beer (you'll find him to be quite knowledgeable). It simply means that we each use different processes that work for us.

Cheers.

edit: multiple typos

Kealia said a mouthful there. Over the years I have found tidbits from John Palmer himself to not be correct. I have learned to try what various people advise and see what works for me. Experience is the best teacher.

FedoraDave wrote:There are no hard and fast rules, because, as already noted, each batch is different, even when you make the same recipe.

Some if it depends on the brewer, as well. I've got 3 batches fermenting, so I let them go 3 weeks, because then I'm bottling a batch every weekend, then turning around and brewing a new batch that same weekend, so the rotation keeps ticking along. Even if the primary fermentation is done in 9 days, the extra time isn't going to hurt anything, and the yeast does do more work cleaning things up during that time, even if they're not making more alcohol.

So, for me, 3 weeks is for convenience, as well as because it's pretty much a lock that it's going to be done by then.

As for conditioning, that's going to vary, as well. But once the pipeline is healthy, the four weeks in the bottle is easy, and I've even gone months before drinking the last of a batch.

Do you rack to a secondary?

I remember reading one of your posts about IPAs tasting better young. Did you mean shorter conditioning time also?