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Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:16 pm
by truckndad
I wasn't answering like that to be a smart ass, even though that's what it looks like. I was just trying to explain why I did what I did
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:45 pm
by rickbray66
truckndad wrote:Alright, I know better. Should've posted the recipe from the git go. But I cleaned everything up and jumped right into the next brew.
First of all, yes I'm OK. No blisters from the hot water, but my right side of my chest is pretty red and sensitive. I've been putting Aloe on it since this morning.
Now onto the recipe:
1 lb Pale Ale Malt
1 lb Chrystal 90
12 oz Honey Malt
8 oz Chrystal 20
8 oz Aromatic
2 oz Black Roast Barley
Mashed for 45 minutes at 155. Sparged with 1/2 gallon at 170 degrees.
Then I added a gallon of water to the wort (more on this later), bought close to a boil, added 5 lbs Munich LME, and got past hot break.
1.5 oz Galena for 90 minutes
.5 oz Challenger for 30
.5 Galena for 1
I've got two thoughts. One, I didn't account for boil off. I just went on auto pilot and added 1 gallon, but this is a 90 minute boil, so I lost more than I was counting on. I might have diluted the wort quite a bit more than expected. Second, when I took my sample, I had aerated the wort, but not really mixed it, so by taking it right off the top, I probably didn't get a true reading. More water than wort.
My thoughts would be geared towards both items you mentioned. It can be surprising how much top off water can affect the OG. And not having your wort mixed well before grabbing your sample can also make a difference. I've done that before getting a pre-boil reading was and was very surprised. But the final OG came out fine and then I realized what I had done when getting the sample for the pre-boil reading.
Also, the sparge with only 1/2 gallon of water seems low to me, but I'm guessing that is indeed what the recipe called for. How much water was used for the mash?
@Jim Johnson -- when I brew up a full body beer, I mash for 45 minutes in an effort to stop conversion a little sooner if it hasn't already completely converted.
Rick
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:49 pm
by Yankeedag
I'd go with a 1 hour mash at 150*F, and add a one gallon rinse with that extra water you had after your sparge. That way, you get all the sugars. But, this is the Nong speaking... so drink a beer and wonder if you wasted your time reading this....
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:50 pm
by jimjohson
I didn't even think you were being a smart ass.
@rick I thought full bodied beers mashed @ a higher temp. same time frame. my mistake
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:04 pm
by rickbray66
jimjohson wrote:I didn't even think you were being a smart ass.
@rick I thought full bodied beers mashed @ a higher temp. same time frame. my mistake
Yes sir. I try to shoot for 158F for my full bodied brews. Going 45 minutes may help end conversion a little sooner and leave a little more unfermentables in the wort for a fuller body.
Rick
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:35 pm
by jimjohson
good idea, never considered that.
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:52 pm
by haerbob3
'nother question what was the mash thickness ratio water to grain?
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:37 am
by mashani
rickbray66 wrote:jimjohson wrote:I didn't even think you were being a smart ass.
@rick I thought full bodied beers mashed @ a higher temp. same time frame. my mistake
Yes sir. I try to shoot for 158F for my full bodied brews. Going 45 minutes may help end conversion a little sooner and leave a little more unfermentables in the wort for a fuller body.
Rick
Only risk there is that your leaving starches behind potentially, not just sugars of higher complexity. So yeah the yeast can't eat either, but the starch can make your beer hazy (won't notice so much in a dark beer), and it can also provide some nice food for beer infecting bugs - some types of sour beers are based on a starchy wort for this very reason, there is yeast food and then there is bug food. It doesn't mean that you will get infected of course. But if the bugs do get in there, nothing will compete with them for that stuff.
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:01 am
by rickbray66
Interesting. I never considered the starches aspect. With a thick mash and higher temp, shouldn't starch conversion should be done in about 30 minutes, give or take a little?
ps. sorry about the thread hijack (truckndad)
Rick
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:01 am
by mashani
rickbray66 wrote:Interesting. I never considered the starches aspect. With a thick mash and higher temp, shouldn't starch conversion should be done in about 30 minutes, give or take a little?
ps. sorry about the thread hijack (truckndad)
Rick
Depends on what your mashing. A mash with a lot of Munich in it would probably not be done... A mash with lots of adjunct grains (flaked whatnot for example) also would probably not be done. EDIT: Also a mash with very lightly kilned and less modified malts like European/Belgian Pilsner potentially could be problematic. The rare times I mash Belgian Pilsner, I mash it for 75, or even 90 minutes when it's got a lot of adjunct grains in the mix when doing a lower temperature mash, because it just isn't done until then. I doubt it would be done at a higher temp at 30 minutes, 45 maybe... 60 probably. Not sure because I don't usually mash that grain > 150. I could try it and find out one day as I do an iodine test to make sure it's done when I mash. Might be an interesting experiment.
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:02 am
by FedoraDave
Returning to the OP (in spite of the interesting side conversation), my first thought on reading the recipe/procedures Mike posted was the 1/2 gallon sparge and possibly the water/grain ratio in the mash. Inefficient conversion and inefficient rinsing of sugars would definitely reduce your OG from projected numbers. This is why I do two 15-minute batch sparges. The run-off from the second sparge always looks very weak in color, but I know I'm still getting some fermentable sugars from it, and I usually get within 0.002-0.004 of the projected OG, if I don't hit it spot-on.
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:09 am
by truckndad
If I researched correctly, the sparge is done with one quart water per two pounds of grain, right? So I used for quarts for just under four pounds of grain. And it was a very slow sparge. No just dumping the water into the grains. I poured it in for different times letting the water drain every time before pouring more.
Frustrated, but not giving up
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:19 am
by haerbob3
What brewing software did you use to get your numbers?
for the mash I get 4.8 Q of water ((60/16) * 1.25) = 4.84375
please post the procedure you followed
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:21 am
by mtsoxfan
When I sparge, I use 1 1/2 times the mash liquid volume...
Re: I hate when I miss OG by this much
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:07 pm
by truckndad
Haerbob scroll upward for the procedure. And as I said earlier, I simply followed the beer in a box instructions that came with the kit.
Mtsoxfan, so you're saying since I soaked the grains in two gallons of water, I should've sparged with three gallons? (1 1/2 Times the mash) That seems like a lo to me