BeerBorg

If you click on the pic to get to the actual conical page, it says they expect it to be back in stock in a few days. It used to say in about a week, so they're updating it.

Ok that's cool. Thanks!

RE: Twang

Keep in mind also that a lot of people attribute the taste of the Pride of Ringwood hops to being "twangy". This wouldn't change when using BrewDemon if they are using the same recipes as the old MrB stuff.

I would challenge the statement that the conical makes a difference. That would mean what you are tasting is actually autolysis and that the conical shape reduces that flavor. My issues with that are two-fold:

1) Autolysis is pretty much a non-issue on the small homebrew scale. It's caused by heat and pressure on the yeast that cause them to burst and release the compounds that cause some off flavors.

2) In regards to pressure, I would think the conical shape actually causes MORE pressure on the yeast. In an LBK or pail you have the weight of your batch distributed over a wider surface area, thus causing less pressure on any given spot. In a conical all of the weight is concentrated over a small area (of yeast) thereby causing more pressure on it.

Being able to drop the trub from the conical would alleviate this issue - IF it were one on this small of a scale. These 2-3 gallon batches just aren't giving enough pressure to cause autolysis problems.

Bringing it back around.....the 20% sale might just be the way to test their extracts but I would assume whatever you used to taste, you'll taste again with these. Just like when we all started with MrB, a little extra extract and some hops go a long way to cover up the twang if it's something that you taste.

My two cents.

To set the record straight…I'm a home brewer at heart and wanted to create a better system than what MB was putting out. In my opinion…the malts were the best part of their system and I was glad to get them. We spent months isolating that MB twang and after brewing the same exacts in Lions 6 gallon BrewTec system (using an airlock) we noticed there was no twang. The conclusion (between me and Brewmaster at Lion) it was either the head space, the MB venting system or that giant bed of yeast at the bottom of their fermenter.

Once our conical fermenter was finished we began testing (using an airlock), using the exact same malts we noticed that MB twang was gone. We brewed many batches, including batches with just our venting plug and still no twang. So, the final conclusion was…the problem had to be either their lack of head spacing or the amount of trub contacting the beer. Which ever it was…our system brews a beer without that infamous twang.

That's good to hear. I have a few small batch recipes that I'm working on, and was hesitating to put them in the LBK as I got the twang almost every MB batch. Might have to pick up a LBC to test the theory as I have both classic MB refills and new C-MB refills to test with (alas, no BD refills to test with yet ).

Thought about this scene the other day, and now that we can post video...

Definitely worth a look, very generous of BrewDemon.

gwcr wrote:That's good to hear. I have a few small batch recipes that I'm working on, and was hesitating to put them in the LBK as I got the twang almost every MB batch. Might have to pick up a LBC to test the theory as I have both classic MB refills and new C-MB refills to test with (alas, no BD refills to test with yet ).

Thought about this scene the other day, and now that we can post video...

Gerat video!
The classic MB refills should be fine in our fermenter…through, I can't promise anything if you use that booster!

BrewDemon wrote:To set the record straight…I'm a home brewer at heart and wanted to create a better system than what MB was putting out. In my opinion…the malts were the best part of their system and I was glad to get them. We spent months isolating that MB twang and after brewing the same exacts in Lions 6 gallon BrewTec system (using an airlock) we noticed there was no twang. The conclusion (between me and Brewmaster at Lion) it was either the head space, the MB venting system or that giant bed of yeast at the bottom of their fermenter.

Once our conical fermenter was finished we began testing (using an airlock), using the exact same malts we noticed that MB twang was gone. We brewed many batches, including batches with just our venting plug and still no twang. So, the final conclusion was…the problem had to be either their lack of head spacing or the amount of trub contacting the beer. Which ever it was…our system brews a beer without that infamous twang.

Thanks for sharing this info. A few questions that I have:

1) Did you brew anything in LBK's as part of the experimentation? I think that would be crucial to definitively assigning "blame" (so to speak) to the ferementing vessel. For example, brewing an all-grain batch in the LBK, or an extract batch using extracts from a neutral source (like Munton's unhopped w/ a hop boil, etc.). If twang is present, then it would seem to prove your theories beyond much doubt. If not, then the mystery would not be completely solved.

2) You mention the LBK's LACK of head space -- I always thought that too much head space was a bad thing, and was often concerned that the LBK provided too MUCH of it. Maybe I've been misinterpreting common knowledge all this time? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on head space in general, so that I can be a better-informed brewer.

3) Regarding the amount of trub in contact with the beer -- wouldn't a typical 5-gallon bucket have a similar amount of contact area as the MB LBK? I realize that a conical is going to have a lot less, but just based on eyeballing and guesstimating, I'm thinking that the "collection area" at the bottom of the LBK would not result in significantly more proportional contact area than a plain old cylindrical plastic bucket.

I know that the purpose of your experimentation was not to identify the source of the twang, but rather to prove that your equipment would NOT produce it. That's fine - I totally get that. What I'm asking above goes beyond that, and I certainly understand if you hadn't taken things this far, nor care enough to bother. Just curious, that's all! It's an interesting topic.

PS - thanks for the 20% offer to Borg members -- a great deal that definitely has me considering an order!

Wow…okay, I'll try and keep this shot.

1. Yes, it was used to create our baseline. Our goal was to eliminate this problem using Lions products.

2. According to our brewmaster…proper headspace should be between 20-25%. Too little headspace just means you will get gushing out the top when the fermentation starts. Too much headspace can lead to oxygen transfer into the brew and flavor wise it doesn’t age as well. However, more of a concern with a commercial brews as with the home brews it's probably only a minor cause for noticeable undesirable flavor. This is more of a problem if you are not using an airlock.

3. You would think so, but a 5 gallon bucket or carboy still has less trub contacting your beer as percentage. (e.g. imagine having the same surface area of trub but making half the beer). More importantly, with most buckets and/or carboys your beer does not pass over this giant bed of yeast each time you fill a bottle.

You're partially correct…while attempting to identify the source, we ended up stumbling into a solution half way through the process.

Thanks for your response - like I said, it's a very interesting topic, considering the fact that many folks on this forum still use MB fermenters, and/or extracts from their company and yours.

Sorry to derail a thread about a promotional offer you've got going on. If I have other questions about the subject, I'll either start a separate thread or PM you.

Cheers!

Ordered a Hellfire Deep Red Ale Plus Recipe today. I will let you know how it comes out when I brew it.

Crazy Climber wrote:Thanks for your response - like I said, it's a very interesting topic, considering the fact that many folks on this forum still use MB fermenters, and/or extracts from their company and yours.

Sorry to derail a thread about a promotional offer you've got going on. If I have other questions about the subject, I'll either start a separate thread or PM you.

Cheers!

No problem Crazy Climber. I'm not here to bash the LBK…after all, I started brewing with this as well. It's inexpensive and it does the job…but I was looking for something better. And knowing what I know now, if given a choice between the LBK and a bucket with an airlock. I would choose the bucket with an airlock every time. However, I do prefer our fermenter though, it's easy to keep clean, you can easily install an airlock and/or a blowout tube and it takes the pain out of bottling. And I always hates bottling day…but that's just me.

Interesting discussion. I too won't derail this promotional thread with further comments about the twang relative to the LBK vs the LBC.

I know that we have had a few dozen people join the Beerborg in the last few days and wanted to make sure that everyone saw this and is able to take advantage of this Borg members only discount!

LouieMacGoo wrote:I know that we have had a few dozen people join the Beerborg in the last few days and wanted to make sure that everyone saw this and is able to take advantage of this Borg members only discount!

I've taken advantage of it so thank you again for posting it. I never got to try the red or brown ales from Mr. Beer before the Cooper's buyout and I sure miss the WCPA/Canadian Draft so I was glad to see them at BrewDemon and I ordered them. With the discount, I couldn't resist. Looking forward to trying them out.