BeerBorg

Gymrat wrote:I think this has a direct correlation to more and more people who have never been to church in their lives. Without God there is no moral compass and a person is less inhibited about following the inclination of their heart. The heart of man is always evil all the time. The only absolute for what is right and what is wrong is in the bible. People who have at least been to church as children have these seeds planted. On top of that we are living in a nation where people pop out kids to get bigger welfare checks. The kids grow up with out any parents who truly care about them. On another level a number of people are more into material things such as boats, cars, etc. than they are into their families, so even in upper middle class and above we have children who were never really tended to or reared properly. Then you look at the input these kids are getting, video games, jack ass type movies, saw type movies, and the list goes on. It all adds up to more and more people with no moral direction or conviction in their lives.

I respectfully disagree. in the us of a, a vast majority of ppl serving hard time in jail for murder, rape, etc come from a religious family or profess one religion or another. as a former Christian I understand your beliefs because they were once mine too; however I have since learned that one does not need "God" to be morally upright or ethical or "good". I am an atheist. I cast aside my religious upbringing and yet I remain the same person I was before. I don't go out of my way to do 'bad ' things. I obey the law.. pay my taxes... and try to be a good little doobie not because I fear some divine retribution if I don't. rather, because I choose to. many ppl have always been atheists and possess a far greater moral 'compass' than most professing faithful ive ever known.

things like this are getting more and more prevalent because parents have stopped being parents over the last 20 years or so. kids learn there are no consequences for their actions because parents would rather be their kid's friends... or because if they did discipline them, the kid can call the cops and have their parents arrested for 'abuse'. add to this the fact that parents tend to be totally clueless and their mentally ill children go undiagnosed until the timebomb in their head goes boom. to illustrate: I come from a loving family... far from perfect but loving. back in the 80s I was severely depressed. I wanted very much to die and no one in my family 'got it'. rather than getting help I got 'cheer up! it cant be that bad!' or 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps!'... offered out of love but it did nothing to help. a decade or so later I confessed to my mom how close I was to suicide then and she turned ghostly white... 'why didn't you say something??? we didn't know?'. um... ok. so family can be totally dense.. and kids are being brought up to just bottle things up on the inside.

another contributing factor: kids are too dependent upon tech and have too much access to it. when I was a kid bullies confronted you in the playground, shoved you down, called you a sissy and stole your lunch money. now? they post horrible things about you on facebook and other social media... which goes viral... and soon a kid feels totally overwhelmed by cyber bullies. again this has at its roots the belief that their actions have no direct consequences... and I bet you dollars to donuts if you asked the bullies if they believed in 'god' a majority would say yes.

anyway... beliefs are like anuses... we all have them. this could rapidly turn into a theological debate which is far from my intent. I just wish to point out that the 'root' cause of these events is far greater than whether or not a kid was ever taken to church. over-simplification of a problem is not the best method of attacking it or fixing it.

FedoraDave wrote:Is it just me, or do these types of things frequently happen in April (or in the spring)? It just seems to me that they do.

my wife was just talking about it...spring madness.

Interesting debate on a sad and all-too-prevalent topic.

What are the root causes? We've heard everything from bad parenting to lazy, entitled kids, to gun control, to lack of religion and cyber-bullying.

I think the root cause is simple: we're broken. There's something wrong with us. Not as a society. Not as a country or a culture. As people. We're flawed. We all have within us the capacity to do harm, whether that capacity is large or small. Call it "sin". Call it "human nature". Call it an "evolutionary holdover". Those are only labels we put on it based on where we're coming from; it boils down to the same thing.

Our species can and does commit evil acts upon itself.

FedoraDave wrote:Interesting debate on a sad and all-too-prevalent topic.

What are the root causes? We've heard everything from bad parenting to lazy, entitled kids, to gun control, to lack of religion and cyber-bullying.

I think the root cause is simple: we're broken. There's something wrong with us. Not as a society. Not as a country or a culture. As people. We're flawed. We all have within us the capacity to do harm, whether that capacity is large or small. Call it "sin". Call it "human nature". Call it an "evolutionary holdover". Those are only labels we put on it based on where we're coming from; it boils down to the same thing.

Our species can and does commit evil acts upon itself.

Humans are flawed no doubt there, Dave.

Unfortunately, there is no subset I see these people that commit these acts coming from. Whether it be bad parenting, entitled kids, gun control, etc. I see these acts committed by a wide range of people coming from a wide range of backgrounds, religions, wealth, etc. Does it boil down to something inside of them? A recessive gene that is triggered somehow, causing these actions to occur? As of today, I do not believe anyone knows other than taken educated guesses in the dark. Other than back to your point, we are all flawed in same way shape or form.

I do know I have continued to see a lack of respect amongst citizens the last decade or so. Not just in crimes however, but overall in general the way I notice people treating other people. They'd rather walk on by than give any sort of common courtesy or basic assistance if needed. Whether it's race driven, religious bias, substance abuse, whatever ... I see it far too often. I personally am not married to a woman of my own race, my wife is Asian and we have even caught some flashes of disapproving eyes in our travels.

And here I thought we were all just apart of the human race. Am I perfect? FAR from it. I've done my fare share of wrong against others. I do believe myself to be a good person overall however. I try to treat everyone the same, though it is difficult at times when someone in your presence is truly different or has a different thought process than yourself. Just grin and bare it and kill them with kindness I suppose is the best route.

Actually this is nothing new. There have always been people willing to break the law to whatever extent they had to do get what they wanted. There have always been people willing to murder people for what ever reason and there have always been crazy people who are capable of doing anything comes to their sick, twisted minds.

But now we have 24 hour news programs that have to bring us every story they can find and show it to us at every possible angle until every ounce of "milk" has been wrung from it.

that's because of parents not being parents. instead they were their friends. now we have kids who have never had any real limits placed on them. thinks the world thinks their as special as their parents do. (rude awakening coming) they've had little or no consequence for their actions growing up as the parents are afraid the kid'll hate them...I'm sorry but if your kids don't "hate" you at times (esp teenagers) you ain't doing the job right.

RickBeer wrote:In short, Darwin has a law "The Survival of the Fittest" that might better be stated as some people aren't meant to exist. We can all pick them out - the ones that cause harm to others, the ones that don't carry even a portion of their own weight and live slovenly off society, the ones that by their inaction cause bad things to happen to others. Sometimes it's poor education, sometimes it's a biased/prejudiced view of the world, sometimes it's ignorance, and sometimes it's evil.

The problem is that Darwinism died the moment someone won that $10M lawsuit that caused that sticker to appear on our lawnmowers that reads "Do not put foot under running lawnmower." We reward the idiots. Watch the movie Idiocracy one of these days.

As most of these mass sprees seem to happen with the perp getting killed, I have to wonder if it is a suicide attempt. Too chicken to do it themselves, they turn it into a video game that cant be won 90% of the time with out losing a life in a game where you only get one.

On the other hand, people have gotten so used to being coddled and told how great they are that when they dont get that "A" or constant praise they see on Facebook they just lose it. Ive seen young kids (ie somewhat fresh out of college) literally cry in the business world when their boss tells them that they need to redo their work because it is not up to snuff. In my day that was considered criticisim and EXPECTED in order to improve. These days it is considered bullying.

+1

Right on, Da Yooper.

I could not agree more with children (an older teens) being coddled and not held accountable for their behavior or actions. I am only 37, but I recall my parents giving me a stern butt whipping when I messed up. Now I am not saying my parents beat me by any stretch of the imagination. Though I knew if I messed up, there would indeed be consequences I would not like waiting for me on the other end.

And don't get me started on kids sports with participation trophies and no scoring leagues, so "everyone is a winner". Life will be a cold, hard, bitter, friendless reality when they get into it for real and no one is there to congratulate them on just showing up for work. "You mean I actually have to do something here"?

Very good debates. Much to think upon here. I feel better today, especially after reading this topic. A huge thank you for your understanding and input.