Zesty lemon Saison

[mashani]

Since the yeast is driving the saison, what am I likely to notice if I use basic 2 row instead of pilsner? I assume pilsner will be a bit lighter and I do prefer more of the heavier side in lower OG beers.
I'm still working on the recipe, have lots of time and would prefer to use the grain I have in stock. I think I only have 1 or 1 1/2 pounds of pilsner laying around and I prefer to use what I have but if I can get a better lemony flavor with pilsner, I'd definitely go that route.

When you say heavy side, what do you mean? If you mean body, you aren't going to have much of a difference regardless. 3711 is going to ferment out almost all the sugars from either, even ones you might try to create with higher mash temps (it doesn't care much, unlike normal Sacc. It ain't normal).

You might get slightly more malty flavor from 2-row vs. pilsner, but you get a nice "grainy" flavor from pilsner which goes well in Saisons and Belgians that you don't get from 2-row, so it's a trade off. But the difference will be slight regardless. That said, 3711 leaves behind a nice mouth feel even though it eats all the sugars, somehow magically. And you will get some extea mouthfeel from the proteins and beta glucans from the oats and the wheat malt. Those things are what's going to really drive the "body" here. Any sugar (or even starch) in there is gonna get eaten by that yeast.

[Beer-lord]

I think I'll stick to the more and somewhat traditional style and use Pilsner. I get to boil for 90 minutes and have 30 minutes more fun doing it.
Got the Sorachi Ace in today. 4 packs and 2 are 11.9% alpha and 2 are 14.6%. I'll tweak the recipe and get to this in a few weeks.
Thanks for all the hand holding.

[Beer-lord]

Reading the packet of Belle Saison yeast is says 2 packs for 5 gallons. Is this really needed for a 1.045 beer?

[Inkleg]

No. One packet took my 1.059 down to 0.998.

[mashani]

No, one packet is gonna eat that just fine.

[Beer-lord]

Thanks guys, that's what I've heard and read but maybe they just want to make more money by selling two packs.
I think I've kicked this horse enough so I'll complete the tweaking on my recipe, get out my OCD box and post what I have later for opinions. This Saison stuff is out of my style and I'm hoping to get something decent on my first try. With the help of the borg, that definitely looks doable.

[mashani]

Thanks guys, that's what I've heard and read but maybe they just want to make more money by selling two packs.

I think they say that because people seem to make nothing but stupidly high OG saisons these days. But I guarantee that very few old world Belgian/French farmer drank some pints of 1.08+ sugar fortified Saisons for sustenance and went out and worked in the fields some more. Not if they wanted to avoid "maimeage" as such. Anything that strong was special occasion beer, or beer that they needed to store for consumption when food was low and they needed extra calories. But that kind of beer would probably more often have been more like a Bier de Garde, more malty, more sweet (IE more CALORIES), then a saison. Any normal farmers daily ale was fresh/young lawnmower beer, not aged strong beer.

People these days forget that back in the day, beer was FOOD. As in you had to be able to drink a lot of it. Because you needed both calories and safe water sources. Or at some points in history drink the water and get sick or die because people threw buckets of feces into their water supply. Unless you were Kosher or someone else who had some smarts and boiled the water for some other reason then making beer. But then you got accused of being a witch because you didn't get sick or die when not drinking beer, because the "masses" were too dumb to connect the dots, so being a witch was easier. Plus they didn't like you anyways because you were weird. So drinking beer was better for your health either way. Drinking beer made you not weird.

So beer is good.

That is all.

[jimjohson]

Mashani, in the FWIW department; When I was stationed in Germany I was privileged to be detailed help a local winery(weingut, auf deutsch) for 3 harvest seasons('81 and '82 I got to stay till we transferred out of the primary). From what I could see the Germans still drink beer over water(at least '80 thru '82 harvests they did). Old Willie would have his first beer at around 9:30 am when we were out picking the grapes, and I'd join him. You could drink the beers they brought out to the field all day and not get a buzz.

[Beer-lord]

So here's what I have so far though I'm still deep in thought on this one. Not sure about the amount of dry hops or even the timing of the late additions.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Lemon Saison
Brewer: Paul
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.25 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.45 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 3.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsen Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 16.7 %
1 lbs Wheat, Red (Cargill) (2.9 SRM) Grain 3 8.3 %
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 23.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 7.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 4.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (DrYeast #Y11) Yeast 7 -
1.00 oz Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Sorachi Ace [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 15.00 qt of water at 164.3 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.94 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
Add zest from 3 large lemons at flame out and whirlpool for 10 minutes
Belle Saison yeast

[Beer-lord]

Mash is on. Hotter than the sun outside and the humidity feels like a brick wall but we'll break thru it. Drinking lost of H2O.
Looking forward to this, outside my box, beer.

[mashani]

1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (DrYeast #Y11) Yeast 7

What the heck is a Dr. Yeast?

Is it dry or liquid?

If it is like the Dupont strain like other liquid Belgian Saison yeasts, be prepared to raise your temperatures into the 90s over the next week. Or it will probably get stuck. But if it's not, then that might be a bad idea (but upper 70s to low 80s are ok with most other saison strains).

[Beer-lord]

Dr is dry yeast.
Just started the 90 minute boil and I'm sweating so much I can't drink enough water

[Beer-lord]

Hit all the numbers and it's been in the fermenter for over an hour. I decided to rehydrate the yeast and I'm going to put a blow off on over night. Yeast was pitched at 68 and I'm just going to let er rip and see how high she goes. That goes against my normal brewing.
The lemon zest smelled exceptionally good while whirlpooling. On a hot day like today, I sure could use a beer like this but it'll be even hotter when this one is ready to drink.

[mashani]

If it's a real saison yeast, free rise is good not bad.

If it's really Dupont strain, then it might get stuck at 1.03 or 1.02 or somewhere in that range. If it does move it somewhere 85+ degrees. 90 even. 98 even. it doesn't matter as long as it's fooking hot.

If it is more like a French saison strain and just labled as Belgian (IE if it's the same yeast as Bella) then it will be happy in the mid to upper 70s, and won't get stuck no matter what you do.

[Beer-lord]

Its Danstar Belle Saison. Everything I've read on it says as long as it's above 63, I'm good. I'm thinking at 68 with a room temperature of 78, it may approach 80 so if it does, I'm likely going to put it in my chamber to cool it down. I'll see what happens overnight and decide if and when I will put it in the chamber to keep below 80.
Is 80 too high for this yeast?