BeerBorg

mashani wrote:

Jon wrote:NO COFFEE!? I don't think I could do my job without coffee!

No coffee was to be found in happy valley. Last call was at the airport. If you were desperate for caffeine you could get mountain dew however. For some reason modern priestly elders decided it wasn't the fact that coffee had caffeine in it that made it bad, but that it was some combination of being hot, dark colored, and having caffeine that made it evil. But cold yellow pee colored caffeine loaded with sugar was OK. So mountain dew became the coders beverage of choice.

There was a TGI Fridays in happy valley. It had a bar, because it was built to specification. The bar was never open. It was not stocked with beverages. Nobody there to serve you. So 1/3rd of the floor space was just dark and empty.

You could get them to serve you 1 beer with your dinner if you really worked at it. They would act like you were the devil incarnate, but you could get 1 beer. I guess TGI Fridays forced them to stock something for tourists. It would be a 3% version of whatever commercial beer it was. If you asked for a second one they turned red and looked as if they were going to explode and would flat out refuse to serve you any longer. So it was actually easier just to not ask.

To get anything stronger then 3% beer you had to go to a private club. Which you had to find a sponsor to get into. And none of the folks I worked with would have stuck a pinky into such a place. They were run by the devils minions.

Happy valley might be happier these days, I dunno? Been a while.

If by happy valley you mean Utah county (Provo area) in specific, it's about the same. If you mean the whole state, it has changed a bit. Still can't get anything above 3.2 in grocery stores and have to go to the state liquor stores. The private clubs are gone. For a while some were getting around it by selling memberships at the door, so it was like a cover charge, but in the sunup to the Olympics, people got concerned that all the rules would give the state a bad name. There are still some odd laws, like 3.2 beer (which is 4% ABV). The oddest one is probably the so-called Zion curtain. I don't know if it applies to all bars or only those in restaurants, but a bartender has to be behind a wall of sorts when mixing a drink.

The coffee thing comes from one of the religious books. I think it actually says something like no hot stimulating drinks, so it technically only applies to coffee and tea. Some people also avoid hot cocoa, but I don't think it's actually forbidden. Same with Coca Cola, Mountain Dew, etc. Some Mormons won't drink anything with caffeine in it because they think the ban really applies to caffeine, but a couple of years ago, the church leaders put something out clarifying that soft drinks were ok (but some people still won't drink them).

Interestingly, it was Utah's vote that ratified the repeal of prohibition. And I've read that in the early days of the Mormon church, beer was considered healthful and people were encourage to drink it in moderation, but I'm not sure of that. Just something I read somewhere.

I don't drink coffee at all. It upsets my digestion severely. Also no butter, bacon, orange juice, ice cream, eggs, and more.
But I can still drink beer. Whew!

So if it's hot stimulating beverages that are the issue, would iced coffee be ok?

I've been to Utah a lot, but mostly to Park City, which is a ski town, so there were always ways around the rules, even when I first started going there in the 90s. I was definitely a member of a private club a few times, and other times I was just "sponsored" by a member and signed my name in a book, which made me a temporary member, I think.

I remember ordering a double, and just getting a drink with a shot in a sidecar. Definitely some of the strangest liquor laws I've seen.

Never had any trouble getting coffee, though--hot or cold.

John Sand wrote:I don't drink coffee at all. It upsets my digestion severely. Also no butter, bacon, orange juice, ice cream, eggs, and more.
But I can still drink beer. Whew!

Oh man...at least you can still have beer!

Jon wrote:So if it's hot stimulating beverages that are the issue, would iced coffee be ok?

I've been to Utah a lot, but mostly to Park City

Park City and other touristy mountain towns were much different in attitude then Provo Valley was and apparently still is. Salt Lake City was better, but nobody wanted to drive there from Provo every night (rental car... $$$).

There really was no coffee (hot or cold) in Provo when I was going there. Not even in the restaurants or grocery store. It simply did not exist. It really really sucked! Especially since I could not stand the Dew. They folks I worked with didn't do Coke/Pepsi. It was too much like coffee somehow to them. Only dew. If you wanted caffeine, that was it. I don't think they did hot cocoa either. Maybe you can get it in the grocery store now, who knows.

There was a lovely rendering plant though. The smell would wake you up if the wind was blowing in the right direction.

On a positive note, you could get up into the mountains in about 20 minutes and enjoy hiking / running on trails by some nice streams and waterfalls. That was my favorite thing about going there.

And one of my friends who was an alcoholic (in that alcohol got him into trouble often) moved there to simply make it as close to impossible for him to get into trouble as he could. It was a good move for him.

The last time I was there was pre-Olympics, they were just starting the massive freeway construction project.

Three days in and no ill effects to report so far, although all this talk about not being able to drink coffee are unsettling to me. I drink mine black with no sugar and have for years, it takes me a pot of coffee, before noon, just to get me going everyday. I can honestly say that giving up my weeknight beers has been a lot easier on me than the thought of giving up coffee too.

We first skied in Utah in 1980. Much different then. When we went last year, we visited Brewer's Coop and were able to buy both the 4% ABV as well as 6 and 8% ABV Wasatch beers. The 4% they could give you a 10% discount per 6 pack of mix and match, but not on the higher ABVs. They were ok.

As we age, our systems handle less and less. My black coffee turned into coffee with cream. Years ago I had bad acid reflux and it was due to my multiple cups of caffeine (coffee and soda) each day. Doctor put me on pills, and had me gradually cut down. Pills stopped after maybe a year, and I now drink ONE cup of coffee with cream each morning. No other caffeine normally.

ScrewyBrewer wrote:I can honestly say that giving up my weeknight beers has been a lot easier on me than the thought of giving up coffee too.

Same here; I can go without the beers. If I skip a day without coffee, I get a headache. I have to get some daily, so I don't get sick.

As far as coffee goes, like Screwy, I take mine black, no sugar. But I limit my intake to two mugs in the morning, and I don't really drink soft drinks much at all, so that's the only caffeine I get during the day.

Bpgreen, as far as the LDS church at one point advocating beer for health reasons, it may have been due to the same dangers in water that made beer a staple for centuries. A bit of alcohol in the system is a much better alternative to dysentery.

I made it through four nights this week without taking a single sip of beer, or any other drinks containing alcohol. This week I also ate a little less too, that's not to say I'm on any kind of strict diet, I'm not. Like Dave I haven't craved or had any soft drinks, or ordered dessert after dinner, for longer than I can remember. In just four days I've eliminated at least 1600 calories from my diet just by skipping two beers a night, which I think is huge. Although I must admit, I am looking forward to having a few beers tonight.

I do black coffee, 4 or 5 cups a day. I don't drink soft drinks. Some OJ in the morning. Usually a glass of some kind of juice smoothie in the afternoon after I work out. I don't normally have desert, only at parties/events.

I kind of graze all day long in between meals. Carrots, hummus, nuts, bananas, leftovers from dinner, whatever else I can find. I can't eat enough at meals to keep my calorie count up.

RE: LDS and beer, yeah, it was probably safer to drink. Also LDS in UT isn't same as LDS/RLDS/?LDS in other places. The only LDS offshoot that gets a lot of media are the polygamists, but there are plenty of others. A good number of Mormons live near me. The folks in UT think they are heretics of some sort and would not step foot in the old historic temple here when they visited, even though it was built by Joseph Smith Jr. and is a registered national landmark. Anyways, it's possible that various branches had different attitudes about such things at different times.

I've always "dieted" that way Vince. When I want to lose weight, I cut out some of what I eat or drink. Or some of everything, just eat and drink a little less. If you eat a bagel, and throw away one quarter, it's 25% fewer calories. Follow that path with everything else, and the weight comes off.
Or, spend three weeks sailing a boat to or from Florida. That works too.

Why do I have to walk 2 miles 5 days a week and exercise 4 afternoons a week, diet during the week and still can't loose 10-15 pounds? Answer, I'm old and my metabolism has obviously slowed down.
Or, I need to do something different than what I've been doing the last zillion years (so my son says). I'm not fat but can loose some in the middle but I refuse to drink only small beers because I like the taste of bigger beers. And, otherwise, my health is pretty good so I try not to worry about it.

Beer-lord wrote: Or, I need to do something different than what I've been doing the last zillion years (so my son says).

FWIW, this will help. Your muscles learn what is expected of them and will find the most efficient way to complete that task. Meaning they will work less to achieve the same results over time so you need to change up your workouts to shock them and keep them guessing. Or, stop drinking beer.

Wait, did I just say that?

Vince, congrats on the week.

Beer-lord wrote:?..I refuse to drink only small beers because I like the taste of bigger beers.

This year, I have initiated a quest... A noble quest indeed...

To brew smaller beers (less than 5% and as low as 3.8% ABV) that TASTE and DRINK like bigger beers.

A challenge indeed but I am using my knowledge of borg (brewing), late hop additions and Belgian brewing to tweak malt presence, mouthfeel, taste and aroma and balace that with whatever hop presence I desire...

The goal is two fold...

1) Reduce the overall alcohol content of the beers I brew and drink...

2) And in reference to number one, do it without sacrificing flavor, mouthfeel and drinkability.

In theory, the end result should be that an avid craft drinker should love it and not know that it's a session beer unless told of same!

We will see how it goes... Right now I have three on deck, the Red X IPA, a Belgian IPA and a Cream Ale like substance, all less than 5% ABV.

If I like the result, the next set of batches goes down to < 4.5% ABV...