PH, how low before it's not a good thing?

[BigPapaG]

As did I Paul...

[Beer-lord]

Thanks guys. Duly noted!

[MadBrewer]

@MadBrewer Just sayin because perhaps there is a Belgian out there that you might actually like.

Do you hate Duval for example?

I appreciate that and I do not know if I ever had Duval. Hate is a strong word, I'm sure if I was to experiment more I could find something I like. I had a Dark Weiss Beer once and liked it. I know it's not Belgian, but there was some spice, clove and banana. I actually found it enjoyable. Like you said it's probably the level of character that makes the difference.

[Beer-lord]

To carry this over from a previous recipe, look at the difference between Bru'n Water (3.4) and EZ water. To get them both to 5.43, Bru'n uses a lot less salts than EZ. My experiences so far show something more in between so I'll try that again this week and add as needed. Not sure why there's such a huge difference between the 2.
Note: I started off each using just lactic acid and it was a much bigger difference between the 2. Now, Bru'n Water does allow me to compute the color of each malt whereas EZ only goes by base, crystal, roasted etc and only the lovibond of crystal can be changed. Maybe that's where the differences are mostly coming from. I dunno!

Bru'n Water.JPG (85.27 KiB) Viewed 4308 times

EZ water.JPG (85.53 KiB) Viewed 4308 times

[BlackDuck]

In the EZ Water, if your only adding the chemicals to the mash, uncheck the boxes next to "adjusting sparge water" then rework your quantities and see what happens. I bet they will be closer to bru'n water. I always uncheck those on only treat the mash water.


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[Beer-lord]

No changes at all. I read that if doing a BIAB, those should remain checked.
I'm sticking with EZ and would rather add more gympsun or acid than have to try to raise it.

[BlackDuck]

No changes at all. I read that if doing a BIAB, those should remain checked.

Ok. I didn't know that about BIAB. Not sure why the numbers would have been off. And why are you getting a "value" error in that one cell? I have a feeling something isn't right. Also, you have a 3 under the lactic acid box. Should that be going in place of the 0?


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[Beer-lord]

Not sure why that 3 is there but removing it makes no difference unless you have something in the white box above it. Not sure about the value error but that did make me wonder. It never has seemed to go away since I've been using it.
This one still has much to learn.
Madbrewer, HELP!

[ScrewyBrewer]

I used the EZwater calculations, shown below, when I brewed my Old Vinyl IPA a few weeks ago. The actual pH reading turned out a full point off from the predicted value too. I pointed out in a post here on the Borg a while back, how the same type of malt produced by different maltsters, can vary quite a bit. In some recipes that difference alone can seem to throw off EZwater's calculations by a full point or more.

ez-1.jpg (101.7 KiB) Viewed 4300 times

I thought about why I like using qBrew and EZwatercalculator, when there are so many newer brewing programs out there. I think their greatest appeal has to do with how easy both of them are to figure out and use. Ruling out any influence my attention deficit disorder might have made over my preferences, the fact is that the simplicity of qBrew and EZwatercalculator would still have put them at the top of my list.

old-vinyl-4sml.jpg (35.6 KiB) Viewed 4300 times

I know that brewing software in general is incapable of producing precise calculations, there are just too many variables to overcome, but they are powerful enough to get us in the ball park. From there it becomes a matter of brewing, then comparing any calculated values with actual measured values and noting any differences. Using ingredients that have consistent properties, like reverse osmosis or distilled water, and grains that have the same pH rating from batch to batch helps to eliminate two of the biggest variables. After that it is good old trial and error that helps close any remaining gaps between calculated and actual values, and when all the numbers come together it can feel very rewarding.

[Beer-lord]

I guess you're right Vince, if it were too easy, it wouldn't be fun. Part of the intrigue (not really the best word) of home brewing is working to get it where you want and the variables keep it interesting. No way could I brew the same, exact beer even if I tried. They'd be close but not exact and I do like that part of it though I would expect 'close' to be good enough.

[MadBrewer]

Beer-Lord I have used EZ Water and Bru'n Water a lot and they are normally a lot closer and should be. Just like Screwy showed, I usually see EZ water estimate .1 higher than my actual mash ph when I test it. I think you have definitely have something creating off calculations in EZ water.

This is just something that comes to mind, below is a screen shot of EZ water 2.0 which I'm sure uses the same format/calculations as 3.0 and it indicates that the program gets less accurate for really thick mashes as well as really thin mashes like in the case with your BIAB. Maybe this is the case for 3.0 as well. Look at the area I circled:

[Beer-lord]

I don't see that anywhere in 3.0 but can say that EZ is closer to what I actually get when I mash than Bru'n Water is. So, I've been starting with only some of the additions and adding more as the mash progresses until I get to where I need to be, waiting about 15 minutes in between.
So far, whatever I'm doing is working very well, or at least to my taste buds it is.

[MadBrewer]

Yeah I also use 3.0 I know it doesnt indicate that like 2.0 does but I figure they are based off the same calculations. I think the fact that you full volume BIAB, confuses the calculators. Just do what you are doing. Use what gets you in the ballpark and fine tune if needed. Getting results you are happy is what is important.

[Beer-lord]

Using EZ today, I was a little high so I had to add more gypsum and calcium chloride so it was pretty much an in between of both calculators that was the most accurate.
Some friends came by today while I was brewing and enjoyed lots of homebrew and they have always enjoyed my beers but did say they can tell I've done something different and really like what RO water has done for my brewing. I'm pleased too. Takes a bit more nerd work but worth every minute of it.

[ScrewyBrewer]

Good to hear that Paul, achieving a level of comfort when making your water adjustments, comes with time, patience and trial and error too. I think you're well on your way to producing better and better beer, congratulations on taking your brewing to the next level!