BeerBorg

All this damn talk about a NEIPA has been in my head so tonight I had a buddy swing by my LHBS and grab a pack of GY054 and it's spinning on a stir plate now. I'm targeting a pitch of about 300B cells into my version.
I'm going to brew this on Sunday since our weather will be crap again.
I'll post my recipe tomorrow....the grain bill should look familiar [WINKING FACE]

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Hmm...

I have a jar of Calcium Chloride. It sounds like it's just the thing for one of these...

And if any of you haven't used these, I bet these would be really quite nice in a beer like this.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/simpsons- ... naked-oats

I used them in some beers last year and the flavor from these was great and they added a nice silky body to the beer.

It is also of interest to me the concept of the biotransformation of hop compounds.

For years I've been throwing all my late hops in commando, pretty much any beer with late hops, I'm throwing them in at flameout/whirlpool commando, and then chucking them into my fermenter. I've been doing this because I feel that I get more out of them by doing this and the results are delicious. (if you taste those hops if you strained them you will notice that there is plenty left in them, and what is left in them gets extracted during fermentation, time, temperature, ph, alcohol, all that effects what is extracted and how much).

This does lead to a hazy beer unless I'm using a really high floc yeast like Nottingham. This never has bothered me, I care about how it tastes not how it looks.

The research / ideas here seem to confirm that I am not crazy and that I am getting more out of my hops. But I never considered that what was extracted might also transform into a more flavorful substance too.

I'm just not sure what makes these so cloudy. Is it one thing or a combo of things? I know there's lots of hops but these guys crash their beer so it should settle. Maybe it's the dry hopping while it's still fermenting. Or maybe the water. Or maybe the wheat/oats. Or maybe it is a combo of these things.

Beer-lord wrote:Maybe it's the dry hopping while it's still fermenting

I think this may be a large part of it. I believe I remember reading that in one of the articles that I posted earlier in this thread.

BlackDuck wrote:

Beer-lord wrote:Maybe it's the dry hopping while it's still fermenting

I think this may be a large part of it. I believe I remember reading that in one of the articles that I posted earlier in this thread.

I think it is in part the biotransformation that occurs by adding the hops early in the primary fermentation, as well as the wheat malt that adds the the cloudiness.

I suspect the oats add to the silkyness that has been described.

Oh no, just realized I'm out of Galaxy and so is my LHBS. I sent an order to Farmhouse and he said he'd get me some out today right away so hopefully it gets here by Saturdays mail. If not, I'll brew Tuesday brew on Sunday then brew this on Tuesday (which is Mardi Gras so I'm calling that beer, Fat Tuesday Ale).
Hey, 4 days in a row off and a man has to do what a man has to do, right?

Here's the recipe I'm going with. I'll plan on adding my dry hops as fermentation slows down as you guys have noted.


Recipe: NEIPA
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 93.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
4.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
3.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
10 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 78.7 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 5 15.0 %
9.6 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.5 %
0.60 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 24.3 IBUs
4.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.9 %
0.40 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 10.8 IBUs
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 10 -
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.70 oz Amarillo [11.70 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 Hop 12 18.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [10.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20.0 Hop 13 13.9 IBUs
1.30 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [13.90 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 14 16.4 IBUs
1.25 oz Centennial [8.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 2 Hop 15 10.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg GIGA yeast - GY054 (Vermont IPA) Yeast 16 -
1.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Hop 19 0.0 IBUs


I'll look to mash around 152 and we'll see what happens.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I plan to mash at about 150 and may add some carapils to help with body.
Is your water treatment different than your normal beers? I keep reading to increase calcium chloride and I'm going to try that with my version.

Before I left work this morning I got my 4L starter of GY054 started. It was a bit old but with twice the number of cells, it'll be more than enough for 2 big beers. I plan to cold crash it tomorrow night unless it's a slow one.

My water treatment is the same as always. I want to establish a baseline before I do anything to the water.

Kealia wrote:My water treatment is the same as always. I want to establish a baseline before I do anything to the water.

FWIW, the articles imply that you should probably increase the chloride levels and reduce the sulfate levels a bit next time around.

Some interesting suggestions on NEIPA's... https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/ ... gland-ipa/

Don’t add your hops during the boil. Well, you can add a few at first wort hop (less than 1 percent of the total hop bill) to prevent boil overs. You only need to add them during the whirlpool and when dry-hopping to get the flavors you’re looking for in a New England IPA. Adding hops during primary fermentation has historically been seen as taboo because CO2 may carry the delicate hop aromas out of the beer. However, many New England IPA brewers are adding their hops during this phase in hopes that the yeast will distribute more hop particulates throughout the beer and help them remain in suspension.
Use super fruit-forward hops like Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, Amarillo, and El Dorado more than traditional varieties like Centennial, Cascade, Chinook, and Columbus. That’s not to say don’t use the “C” varieties, but they aren’t as fruit-forward as some of the newer hops out there.
Use a huge dry hop charge. Weldwerks uses up to three dry-hop additions over a 7 to 8 day period after primary fermentation.

And I've seen quite a few recipes that suggest boil hops only 10 minutes or less. And, though I've never fully understood it, you actually get more IBU's with a 30 minute steep than adding at flameout though I believe Beersmith assumes an immediate chill at flameout.
Due to my OCD googling, I'm adjusting my hop additions AGAIN then sticking to it.

Almost all of my pale ale and IPA type beers anymore involve a 10 minute boil of some hop, all the rest chucked in at flameout, and a 30 minute lid on hopstand before I start to actively cool, and most or all of the hops chucked into my fermenter. I have seen no reason really for a more complex hop schedule then that most of the time anymore.

I have no lack of bitterness at all. Everything is plenty bitter. But not harsh.

I am using all high AA hops, but pretty much everything mentioned as a hop for this kind of beer is a high AA hop.

You will get full AA utilization, no different then boiling IMHO until your wort drops below 190 or so.

All the way down to 170, maybe even 160 you still are getting partial AA utilization.

The old school thought that "you need to boil the snot out of the hops to get them to isomerize" to provide a stable bitterness, as far as I can tell is crap.

Everything I make this way stays perfectly stable. Flavor and aroma actually seem MORE stable to me.

Basically I'm already doing everything NEIPA style by these documents, except for using higher chloride water, adding oats/wheat, and moving my dry hop additions to earlier in the fermentation.

So, I think doing this is right up my alley, hardly any process change at all for me.

So I just bought some white wheat and some Simpsons golden naked oats, and enough Citra and Mosiac to make BeerLord happy for a few days, and some London ESB, which I wanted for other reasons too anyways, and I think it will work well here. So I'm in like Flynn. Or something like that.

I won't use any crystal, the golden naked oats give some sweet nut and berry flavors, which I think will be wonderful on their own mixed with the hops. I'll probably just do an @10, @flameout/hopstand, and then dry hop 3 days in or something like that with a mix of both hops every step of the way. Keep it simple, see no reason to go all complex.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

That sounds good mashani. Regarding crystal, some of the NEIPA brewers suggest a little of the lighter crystal and others don't. My plan over the next 6 months is to do some recipes with it and some without it to see what it brings to this style. I only have 3% so that's almost nothing. Others suggest some honey malt in small amounts but I'm trying that in the pale ale version.
I've already made adjustments to the recipe I listed by moving hops around. My plan for now is to add the first dry hops 3-4 days after fermentation has started but I won't likely take a reading to see where it is. This is the part that I think will really make this beer a NEIPA and it sounds like you're right with that too.

I have gone back and adjusted my recipe to reflect water adjustments.
Shooting for
Ca = 89
Mg = 16
Na = 6
Cl = 93
SO4 = 142