BeerBorg

Entropy_Brewing wrote:Hello everyone! I've been involved in the conversations going on over on the FB page for the Mash and Boil, and Berryman invited me over here to check things out. I've had my M&B for about a year now and have done about 18 batches on it. I bought the unit originally to do small BIAB batch as test batches for my big 15gallon system, but found it was so easy to use I just kept going with 5 gallon batches. I have 3 young ones running around the house, so the ability to set up in the kitchen or back patio to brew has been a huge plus for me. I started off doing a standard mash with the "pour over" sparge during the mash, then installed a 12v brown pump and made an attempt at recirculation with limited success. I then stole the chugger pump off my big system hoping I could regulate things better in terms of flow rate. Having the larger pump and valve did seem to help some, but I still felt like I was constantly screwing with the flow. I was either flowing too much and risking overflowing the basket, or not enough and the grain bed would start to go dry. I brewed with a friend that had the robobrew rig, and it hit me exactly what was the purpose of the center drain pipe and was impressed as to how much easier it made the brew day. I decided to take matters into my own hands and build my own drain pipe set up. I used mostly off the shelf parts with a little machining required. With 2-3 handfuls of rice hulls and the drain pipe mod, I feel like I've greatly simplified my brew day, and picked up efficiency in the process. I can now set me pump at about 50-60% flow, and just let it run the entire mash without messing with it. I notice mash temps are also more stable now (fluctuate 2 to maybe 3 degrees) and I'm getting about 83% mash efficiency. Here are a couple vids of the set up, one showing the parts and other of a brew day with the drain pipe mod installed.

Banjo-guy wrote:Welcome to the borg. You’ve done some really great mods to the M and B.I’ve done three brews. All were 3 gallon biab. That’s all I plan on doing because I like the simplicity of it. Watching your videos makes want to follow your approach but I think I’ll keep it simple. I only need 2.5 gallon batches most of the time.

mashani wrote:

Banjo-guy wrote:Welcome to the borg. You’ve done some really great mods to the M and B.I’ve done three brews. All were 3 gallon biab. That’s all I plan on doing because I like the simplicity of it. Watching your videos makes want to follow your approach but I think I’ll keep it simple. I only need 2.5 gallon batches most of the time.

Yes, Wecome Tyler.

I'm pretty much the same here as Banjo-guy, I think the drain pipe mods are cool, and if I was doing 5 gallon batches over 1.05ish I might consider doing it, getting a pump, etc., but all I'm planning on doing are batches (mostly 3 gallons) where I can do it full volume no sparge BIAB style, and anything 5 gallons will be stuff like patersbiers, bitters, or milds that will below 1.05 and still fit with full volume.

But since I'm getting 80+% mash efficiency doing that the way I am now, and the couple of beers I've tried out of the 7 batches I've made so far are both excellent, I don't see any reason to fiddle with my mash & boil adding more "stuff" to it right now.

I have a long probe thermometer, and my mash temps down in the grain bed stay pretty stable, more stable then the temperature reading at the bottom sensor would suggest because the thermal mass of all the water being put in up front is significant. The sensor is just reading a thin layer near the burner, all that heat just works its way up through the mash and around the sides of the grain pipe, so although it might read a couple of degrees too high at the sensor after it fires up and kicks off, the actual mash is not getting too high. Stirring it once in a while is all I have needed to do, and I think that's really just helping my mash along by releasing starches and sugars from the grains more then because of mash temps.

Adding more stuff is right now for me is just more stuff to clean, fiddle with, maintain, etc. I'm all about simple. Simple is why I've actually made 7 AG batches since I got this, if it wasn't simple I'd still be doing mostly PMs and/or steep + extract.

The simplicity of the thing has turned this old former AG brewer that later turned into PM/Extract brewer back into a primary AG brewer.

berryman wrote:Excellent Tyler, glad you came here and joined our forum The Beer Borg A small but good group of very knowable brewers with a lot of different ways of making beer. The M&B thread is just one of the many things discussed here. Check out the whole forum and looking forward to your insight on brewing.

bpgreen wrote: I just ordered one from him. I'm debating using it this weekend or waiting until my next brew to isolate what changes make the most difference.

berryman wrote:

bpgreen wrote: I just ordered one from him. I'm debating using it this weekend or waiting until my next brew to isolate what changes make the most difference.

I think if were me, I would try another batch without it first to try isolate your problem first. Your numbers should be higher then what you are getting, my first batch was at 74% with just a pour back over but instead of a pitcher I already had a pump.
That said, yes I am also building the drain pipe mod for mine and with Tyler's help and have got most everything now to build one. I will tell you he really isn't making no money on this after buying the components and shipping, I am close to that number and building it myself, but I like to build stuff and can and have the time.

bpgreen wrote:

berryman wrote:

bpgreen wrote: I just ordered one from him. I'm debating using it this weekend or waiting until my next brew to isolate what changes make the most difference.

I think if were me, I would try another batch without it first to try isolate your problem first. Your numbers should be higher then what you are getting, my first batch was at 74% with just a pour back over but instead of a pitcher I already had a pump.
That said, yes I am also building the drain pipe mod for mine and with Tyler's help and have got most everything now to build one. I will tell you he really isn't making no money on this after buying the components and shipping, I am close to that number and building it myself, but I like to build stuff and can and have the time.

I think that's my plan. Even without the pipe mod, I'm going to be doing two things differently this weekend. I'm using my Kitchenaid to mill the grains so I can mill them finely and with better control, and I'm going to use the pump to recirculate. Then I'l use the pipe mode on the next batch. Or maybe do one with the pump and mill the grains with the cereal killer (but I think I need to use a different drill; the one I have doesn't have enough torque) and then one with the pipe mod.

berryman wrote:Brian, years ago when I built and raced drag cars, I learned if you change too many things at a time you don't know what helped or hurt. One thing might be the greatest but the other thing might have not been so good. Just my thinking and I apply it to brewing

Entropy_Brewing wrote: I think I agree. I would run without the drain pipe and see if you can get things back up to where they should be. I'm not sure how you would crush grain in the Kitchenaid, but I'd be afraid you'll get them too fine. The grain basket on the mash and boil doesn't like really fine dust/bits and gets clogged up. I would the same mill you were before, maybe use some rice hulls, and pull a larger amount of water when you do a "drain and sparge". You mentioned you pulled about a quart, I'd go double that up to a full gallon and pour it back over the top and stir well. That should extract plenty of sugars from your grains. If it doesn't then it might be time to look into your mill set up.