BeerBorg

TY Dave, I am guessing they are not SS. I could spot weld on mine but thinking of ss rivets might work. just a idea for future use for a different cover but have to find some that are close

I'm going to try something a little different that seems like a natural fit for the Mash & Boil.

One of the things I like about using the M&B is that I can set it to have the mash water at temperature when I wake up (and since I like to sleep in on weekends, but don't always manage to do so, I can set the timer to have it ready at 7, but keep it at temperature until 11).

I was getting ready to plug it in and set the timer when I remembered a technique my nephew told me about a while back--the overnight mash. I used it a few times with partial mashes, but kind of forgot about it. One of the potential problems with a "normal" overnight mash is that if the temperature drops too low, you can get undesirable bacteria or wild yeast that can start on it. They'll be killed by the boil, but it's (probably) possible to get off flavors as a result.

But with the M&B, if I set the mash temperature, then set it to start now and hold the temperature for 13 hours or something like that, it'll keep it at temperature all night long. So when I get up in the morning, I can just pull the basket, set the temperature to 218 (and set it to 1600 W), start my sparge and shave an hour off my brew day. Since it's double walled, I don't think it'll use much electricity to keep it at temperature (I used to mash in a cooler and it only dropped a couple of degrees overnight). It will only take a few minutes longer to set it up tonight (pouring the grain in the basket and stirring it).

So the real change will be tomorrow, when I start the actual brew day. Instead of adding the grains and waiting for an hour, I'll start with the step where I pull the basket and start increasing the temperature to a boil while I sparge.

This sounds like a good way to shave some time off the brew day. I'm betting the efficiency goes up a few points with a long mash like that, too.

Let us know how this experiment works. What I like about the M&B so many different ways can use it and get it to your own style of brewing.

I've been busy and haven't been able to report back.

My efficiency was still poor (like around 60%), but I think I might be skipping a step due to skimming the M&B instructions. Mashing overnight definitely makes for a shorter brew day. Setting things up the night before already shortened the brew day because I didn't have to wait for the water to reach mash temps, but this cuts out the mash, as well, so I finished before lunch (even though I slept in).

I pulled the basket up, added the hops, increased the target temperature and started the sparge (I think I'm supposed to wait for the sparge to finish and for it to reach boiling to add the bittering hops, but I feel this is close to FWH and it's easier for me.

I'm definitely going to do this again on my next brew.

As you may or may not remember, I chill with a pump, first running a few sinks full of tap water through, then recirculating ice water.

After I dumped the buckets of tap water that was used for the first phase, I realized that I could have saved that water to clean the M&B. I know it's only a small amount of water, but I'm trying to conserve what I can (I'd go full no-chill except that the double wall makes it take too long since I often end up brewing before traveling).

If 60% is "mash efficiency", I would take a hard look at your water ph, your mash ph, and whatever it is your using to test the ph, and/or how you are adjusting your mash/water PH. That is really the only reason (unless your grain just isn't crushed decently at all) that you should be getting that low of an "mash" efficiency.

If it's brewhouse efficiency, that's still pretty low, you should be getting 70% or at least close to it.

If it's not PH or crush, then maybe your beersmith is just set up wrong somehow and "lying".

mashani wrote: If it's brewhouse efficiency, that's still pretty low, you should be getting 70% or at least close to it.

If it's not PH or crush, then maybe your beersmith is just set up wrong somehow and "lying".

Brian, I am not sure either for the low numbers you are getting. My first batch with the M&B was 74, since then I have made a few small changes on procedure and have a good consistent 78% brewhouse. I do sometimes take a pre-boil reading but really don't see a need for it if you know your boil off rate and what you will end up with in the fermenter.
I will explain my step by step and you can see if you are doing something a lot different. I am using .35 (44 oz per lb) strike water, up from the .30 I started with, mash in at 159 deg on a average size batch. I use some rice hulls but don't figure them in the grain bill. I recirculate some while mashing in, drop the unit down to 152 deg. and switch it to the 1000w setting. After around 10-15 mins. I take a PH reading it is usually close enough but I do have some Lactic Acid and Acidulated malt on hand if needed. I have been doing a little longer mash now and that seems to be working good for me. I recirculate around every 15 mins. Sparge with 165-167 degs and until I reach 6.5 gal mark. I turn the unit back to 1600w and 218 degs. shortly after I lift the grain tube and start the sparge. My boil off rate is just a little over .5 per hr. I leave the sludge in the bottom of the M&B and put 5.5 into the fermenter and take my last reading correct it if needed. I hope some of this might help.

I have my source water plugged into BeerSmith, and I test the PH of it and adjust it as required. The PH of my water can change by as much as +/- 0.3 over the year depending on rainfall, time of year (what kind of water treatment they are doing), etc. I plug in my grain bill and look at what Beersmith tells me it thinks the mash ph will be based on it. I then pre-adjust my water or add acidulated malt to my grains before I start the mash to target around 5.3 mash PH and then test it and tweak it from there if I feel like it. I stir the mash 4-5 times normally (exceptions being those few really long mashes I did, I just let them sit). I normally do a "mashout" before I pull the basket, IE heat it up to about 172-173 and give it a stir then wait for it to get back up to 172-173 again and pull the basket.

Before I did this, I was getting in the low 70% range for mash efficiency, now I'm in the 80+% range mash efficiency normally, and getting mid to upper 70s brewhouse efficiencies.

My grain crush is what MoreBeer sends me, which I believe is "slightly aggressive" but it's not crazy like the BIAB crush some people do.

A couple really good points you mentioned mash. The ph can change though out the year on water table water. Soil PH can take a long time to change, and a lot of lime. Most everything I do comes in at around 5.2 to 5.6, I leave it alone at them numbers. If bpgreen isn't hitting it close with this system, then I am guessing it is water. You can crush it down until you start getting stuck with this machine and he hasn't said he had a problem with that. So I am going with water at this time.

I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong. I added acid to change the pH based on my ward labs report. I used my KitchenAid to mill the grain, so it was basically coarse flour. I think I missed a step in the instructions, so I'm going to be extra careful in my next batch.

Getting <60% efficiency when everybody else is reporting >80% efficiency is maddening.

I'll try another batch in a week or so.

I don't know where your water comes from since you live in a desert more or less I think, but considering mine comes from a mile or so out from shore in a great lake (as in lots of buffering of runoff and what not by the time it gets there) and still can change a good bit depending on the time of year and how they are treating it, its quite likely that your water ph might change a good bit depending on the time of year too, and maybe even more then mine does. You really should check it about once a month and see where it's at.

I'm near the end of a brew day and am going to use the no chill method. I'm just lazy and want to make brewing as easy as possible.
I have a 60 minute addition of UK Goldings AA 6.1. The calculated IBU of the beer is 32 from Beersmith. How much extra bitterness do you think I will get by no chill? The volume is 3 gallons and its about 50 degrees in my garage. I know Mashani does this all the time.

If you are using the current version of beersmith, under your equipment profile near the bottom you will see a setting for whirlpool time, and a check box that says something like "calculate ibu additions for whirlpool". Beersmith assumes the time from "boiling" until about 185 degrees is this when it comes to IBU additions, it is expecting the whirlpool # to represent this. The reality is more complicated then that, but for BITTERING additions which are mostly already utilized this works well enough.

But because it's not just bittering additions, and the slow chill will keep it in "more complicated" territory, I would suggest setting it as about 45-60 minutes of whirlpool to start with and check the box and see how that works out for you. Depending on ambient temps and when you put the lid on it the mash and boil will probably actually be below 185 a good bit before that, but it will stay between that and 150 or so for long while, and you still get some utilization all the way down to 150. This may matter little if using a 3% hop, but if using a 12% hop it might start to "bite you" as such if you don't plug in a big enough number and they are late additions. (see below). Mine is currently set at 60, but I put the lid on immediately, in fact slightly before the boil is over to sanitize the lid with hot steam, because .. my house .. so I retain a lot of heat for a long time. If you left the lid off for a while it might cool down a bit quicker.

So IE if I were to plug 60 minute boil of 1oz of said hops in as pure bittering addition for a 3 gallon 1.05ish wort, and check that box I will get about 1 or 1.5 extra IBU, or something like that... (I don't know for sure the exact # without messing around, but that's about right for a 6% AAU hop I think). Which isn't going to matter.

Now this is where it gets messed up. If half of those hops went in at 60 and half went in at say 30, it will be more like 3 or 4 extra IBUs.

If half went in at 60 and half went in @flameout it's going to be more like 8 or 9 extra IBUs.

Because the hops have "more left to give" as such.

People tend to notice the difference in perceived bitterness in about 7 IBU increments (YMMV depending on the person, and the kind of beer, that's just a generalization but it's like that for a "typical" beer, as in 1.05ish normal mashed wort... in any case generally it's not like 1 or 2 IBUs normally matters, except for the rare case when it pushes it above a perception threshold).

So if you even notice comes down to if the extra added pushes it above that +7 or whatever from where someone notice a difference before threshold. The more you are adding late hops to a beer the more likely this will happen, vs. something with just bittering hops.

Did that make sense?

Glad you posted this mash. Since I got a new boil kettle, I did not remember to check this on my new kettle.
Thanks for the reminder.

Beer-lord wrote:Glad you posted this mash. Since I got a new boil kettle, I did not remember to check this on my new kettle.
Thanks for the reminder.

LOL, with your level of "hop utilization", that's a dangerous omission!